Minnesota gays and lesbians are very sorry...

[Farmer_Jane]

@Kolga

Again, you’re demanding a level of “class” from an oppressed group that you’re not demanding from the oppressors. And that’s unreasonable, unrealistic and unfair.

How am I not demanding the same from Koch? I wasn’t aware that I had to say, “Koch is a big meanie weenie” as some kind of disclaimer. Is this one of your red herring things again?

And I see by your last paragraph that you actually agree with the sentiment of the letter - if Amy Koch believes that her sex life isn’t the public’s business, then she shouldn’t get into the sex/love/romantic lives of others, like the LGBT community, that she’s spent a lot of her career demonizing.

She most certainly shouldn’t be getting into anyone’s sex life. Nor should we. Though I agree the letter was on target and happily snarky, I disagreed with the idea that the gay community (whatever that means) needs to do that kind of stuff as a unified movement.

You not reading my posts again?

So if the Human Rights Campaign had made that statement, you think it would’ve been good PR? In good taste? A good spending of cash?

[RickJay]

@Mighty_Girl

Mr. Medeiros may be an asshole, he probably is based on my observation that all humans are assholes to some degree, but Ms. Adulteress is a bigger asshole by several orders of magnitude. So he wins.

You don’t beat assholes by returning their behaviour. Don’t roll in the filth with the pigs.

[Kolga]

@CitizenPained

How am I not demanding the same from Koch? I wasn’t aware that I had to say, “Koch is a big meanie weenie” as some kind of disclaimer. Is this one of your red herring things again?

I have no idea what you mean by red herring. In your original statement, you criticized the letter, not Koch. You called upon oppressed people to not snark against their oppressors. I pointed out that demanding people who are being shit on not fling shit back is sanctimonious.

@CitizenPained

She most certainly shouldn’t be getting into anyone’s sex life. Nor should we. Though I agree the letter was on target and happily snarky, I disagreed with the idea that the gay community (whatever that means) needs to do that kind of stuff as a unified movement.

You not reading my posts again?

I’m reading them. I’m disagreeing with you.

@CitizenPained

So if the Human Rights Campaign had made that statement, you think it would’ve been good PR? In good taste? A good spending of cash?

How much time and money does it take to write a letter?

[Miller]

@RickJay

You don’t beat assholes by returning their behaviour.

Actually, that’s pretty much the only way to beat them. Assholes aren’t going to leave you alone if you’re nice to them. That’s what makes them assholes in the first place.

Don’t roll in the filth with the pigs.

If you want to fight pigs, you have to go where pigs live.

[Steve_MB]

@CitizenPained

From a PR standpoint, they’re not doing the right thing.

Nonsense. Embarrassing one of these losers is a PR coup.

[Duke]

@Miller

Actually, that’s pretty much the only way to beat them. Assholes aren’t going to leave you alone if you’re nice to them. That’s what makes them assholes in the first place.

I dunno–that hasn’t stopped the Phelps Clan, although one could say that nothing is going to stop them short of Phred dying. (Note: this post was NOT intended to incite violence in any way, shape, or form. But since Phred doesn’t have an account here, feel free to wish all you want. :p)

Seems to me like what’s slowed down the Phelpses the most has been, well, not being nice to them necessarily, but lampooning them in a colorful and amusing way. I can’t decide whether the Medeiros letter is a lampoon or a grumpy rant. (And the comments likening him to Dennis Miller haven’t helped…that guy hasn’t been funny in years.)

[Steve_MB]

@mister_nyx

I don’t believe that the people who make this argument even believe it. I think it’s just a socially acceptable way to tell people in oppressed groups to shut up.

This.

The “socially acceptable” phrase raises another point. Public humiliation is how bigotry and other such garbage becomes “socially unacceptable”. Letting bigots escape humiliation when one has an effective opportunity to influct some is craven appeasement.

[Steve_MB]

@RickJay

You don’t beat assholes by returning their behaviour. Don’t roll in the filth with the pigs.

Piffle. You din’t defeat aggressors by singing Kum Ba Yah at them.

[Chessic_Sense]

@RickJay

You don’t beat assholes by returning their behaviour. Don’t roll in the filth with the pigs.

Stop trying to draw equivalencies. Need I remind everyone that one of the people involved actively campaigns to stop equal rights while committing adultery, and the other one wrote a nasty letter? That is not “returning their behavior.”

[Intergalactic_Gladiator]

@TokyoPlayer

Since when does writing satire make one an asshole?

Boy, that Jonathan Swift sure was an asshole, wasn’t he?
As for me, I liked the “apology.” I just wish it would actually hit its mark and make a few people stop and say “Wow, I’ve been a douchebag biggot. I really should just leave the gay people who just want to marry their loved ones alone.” I don’t think that will happen.

[SpoilerVirgin]

I’m with Mel Brooks, who has spent a lifetime making people laugh at Hitler. By making bigots look foolish, we take away their power. Amy Koch tried to make her brand of bigotry into law, and she deserves all of the ridicule that the gay community can muster.

I don’t think the satire will change the minds of any bigots, but it might help to cost Koch her job, and that would be one more step toward a more enlightened world (or at least a more enlightened Minnesota).

[Marley23]

@SpoilerVirgin

I don’t think the satire will change the minds of any bigots, but it might help to cost Koch her job, and that would be one more step toward a more enlightened world (or at least a more enlightened Minnesota).

Koch had already resigned.

[Mighty_Girl]

@SpoilerVirgin

I’m with Mel Brooks, who has spent a lifetime making people laugh at Hitler.

He isn’t alone. Chaplin did it before him (and was criticized for it). When the allies went to war against Germany then they did it too.

[MsRobyn]

@Marley23

Koch had already resigned.

She resigned her position as majority leader, not her seat. She’s still a state senator.

I’m sure she’s rationalizing her behavior by telling herself that at least her relationship was with a man.

[Maus_Magill]

This part is full of win:

It is now clear to us that if we were not so self-focused and myopic, we would have been able to see that the time you wasted diligently writing legislation that would forever seal the definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman, could have been more usefully spent reshaping the legal definition of “adultery.”

[Miller]

@Duke

I dunno–that hasn’t stopped the Phelps Clan, although one could say that nothing is going to stop them short of Phred dying.

I’m not really talking about Westboro Baptist. They’re a straight-up cult, not a legitimate political advocacy group, and their M.O. is entirely about making themselves as hated as possible, to enforce the in-group mentality. Fred Phelps himself is a violent sociopath, who viciously abused his wife and children - and likely is no gentler to his grandchildren and other assorted church members. He’s basically built an entire parish out of battered spouse syndrome.

Comparing mainstream homophobes to Westboro Baptist is actually unfair to the homophobes.

[Farmer_Jane]

Oh, so being snarky about one’s personal life is good PR? I’ll fire off that memo to the HRC, NAACP, ACLU, the DNC and other campaigns.

Snark and nasty are for the right wingers. Be logical, stay on course, and leave the rest to comedians and individuals (like the gentlemen who wrote the letter). Again, if an organization had written that letter, I’d object wholeheartedly. That one man? Well, good for him and shame on the paper (and others, eg HuffPo) for bad reporting.

[Kolga]

The LGBT community has withstood vicious ugly public assaults against them for decades. One member of the LBGT community wrote a snarky letter. That doesn’t make the two equivalent in any way. Again, demanding that the LGBT community or its members never, not once, snap back after decades of oppression and humiliation is a sanctimonious demand.

[Dangerosa]

@Kolga

The LGBT community has withstood vicious ugly public assaults against them for decades. One member of the LBGT community wrote a snarky letter. That doesn’t make the two equivalent in any way. Again, demanding that the LGBT community or its members never, not once, snap back after decades of oppression and humiliation is a sanctimonious demand.

Not only is it sanctimonious, it also deprives them of snark - something that since the days of Oscar Wilde - and probably before, the community has excelled at.

[Sudden_Kestrel]

@Kolga

The LGBT community has withstood vicious ugly public assaults against them for decades. One member of the LBGT community wrote a snarky letter. That doesn’t make the two equivalent in any way. Again, demanding that the LGBT community or its members never, not once, snap back after decades of oppression and humiliation is a sanctimonious demand.

What’s even worse is that CitizenPained is, I believe, stating that only certain entities have the right to employ sarcasm, snark or “nastiness” to make a point. Where exactly does one get a comedian’s license?