Misogyny on board

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522

Sorry, “we” being “many American women” which is not inclusive of people who don’t feel that way, obviously, but is just as obviously, a we that appears to include many of the SDMB female community - although not all.

Note that when referring to “we” “women” the “SDMB female community” or I make other generalizations about any group of people, ever, I specifically exclude Sateryn76 who does not feel at all this way. There are several other female posters that I could guess can be excluded from this set as well, but I won’t put words in their mouths and assume.

523

People talk about a blacklist like it’s a bad thing, but I really like the idea. When I was a kid, it was GREAT fun to intimidate that creepy kid in class who bothered the girls, and chase him all the way back to his house. (Sounds like it should have happened more often, though.)

524

This exactly.

525

Although I don’t know anything about the incident ladyfoxfyre is referring to above, I think there is considerable truth to her assessment. Does anybody remember this gem from Idle Thoughts in 2007, wherein he opines on a then-contemporary news incident involving a man putting his testicles in an unconscious woman’s mouth? I present here an excerpt for your reading pleasure.

Wow, indeed. In my estimation, a moderator who does not think that teabagging constitutes sexual assault is rather unlikely to take appeals about tittypix-requests very seriously. I admit to feeling some consternation regarding this issue.

526

That quote is out of context.

In that thread, jsgoddess says that “As far as I know, no one else has ever before “tea-bagged” a sleeping person.”

Idle Thoughts comes in and posts the quoted portion, which, in simple terms, says that just about any male who has lived in a male dorm or been in basic training, cooped up with other males, has probably either perpetrated or been the victim of teabagging. Which is true, even at the religious institution I attended as an undergraduate.

Males have put their balls on me. It was not a sexual assault. It was funny, both to me as the victim as well as the perpetrator. We laughed about it and moved the fuck on, because we were (and to some degree, still are) immature in that regard.

Now, had he said that a male putting his balls on a sleeping FEMALE was no big deal, you’d be onto something. But, again, that’s not what he said, nor what he intended.

527

“Join Date: Nov 2012”

I’m wondering how you remember “this gem.”

528

Wait, I thought I was the one trolling the zombie threads?

529

I’ve been reading SD since AOL times. Would you like to see my CV?

530

Neither do I think you are suitable moderator material, my friend. C’est la vie.

531

For the record, of the two of us, I’m not the one who volunteered for it.

ETA: But I will give you a second for your self-nomination!

532

I feel like I should say something here but I’m not really sure what my opinion is. I have seen plenty of threads on here where men have referred indirectly to their looks or whatever, and gotten comments from women to the effect of “How you doin’?” I certainly would not be offended or bothered by this.

I mean, if I posted a thread to the effect of “I’m 6’2”, 200 pounds, 8% body fat, and I’ve stopped working out but I think my muscles are still getting bigger?", what exactly do you claim would happen? All the women would studiously ignore it and the only responses would be Serious Business citing clinical studies or something? Yes, I have heard that women care less about purely visual sexual characteristics than men, but - really?

And just to be clear, are you saying my comment was actually misogynistic?

I’m not going to agree with you there. If you think making a joke that essentially boils down to “I like boobs” is “mistreatment of women”, you need to get some perspective. It was a lame joke, that’s it.

And this is, I think, the only boob joke I have made in 10 years on the SDMB. I am not exactly the stereotypical “hurr durr boobs” kind of guy, but what can I say? “I’m 110 pounds and my boobs are huge and getting bigger” burnt out my self control. If you want to find a forum in which a question like that will not provoke a male response, you need to find one on which there are no males. That is not a mere “question about anatomy”. It could double as the introduction to a Penthouse Forum letter. And really, at the time, I could scarcely imagine that the OP did not anticipate such responses when composing it.

Imagine instead this was a group of 20 men and women meeting informally, socially in real life. One of the women starts talking, without obvious concern, about how her boobs are mysteriously getting bigger. Are you really going to demand that all the men hold their tongue for the duration of the conversation, and not make any half-assed jokes? Please. Certainly, you would expect that no one gets aggressive or unpleasant, but “I’d be happy to take a look at that for you, har har har!” is a pretty ordinary response in my book, and getting upset over that is completely irrational.

In the real world, if you didn’t want to provoke comments like that from men in an informal, social situation, you’d wait until the men weren’t around to bring it up. There are plenty of forums like that on the web. The SDMB is not one of them.

Furthermore, unlike a real-life conversation, lame throwaway jokes do not take time away from anyone who is contributing actual, useful information.

All that said - obviously, not everyone views interactions on the SDMB in the same context I do, so if anyone found it loathsome or offensive, I apologize, and will try to hold off on further lame boob jokes for another 10 years or so.

533

(If this pops up as a double post, my bad–not what I intended, but I just remembered this.)

After one of my classes today, a couple of my female students hung around for a half hour or so, just to shoot the shit, and the topic of sexual violence against women came up (oddly enough, not because of my reading of these threads.) Both of these young women (college freshmen) indicated many of the same things I’ve learned about in the past couple of days on the Dope: namely, that they don’t pump gas alone at night, or the whole carrying of the keys through the fingers as a weapon thing, just in case.

It led to a really interesting discussion, which I was more informed about because there has been some good stuff that came out of these threads. I said in a different thread that I see the 'tubes as mostly entertainment, but in this case, I was able to get something out of it–although the threads themselves are frustrating from both sides to me. So, hey…a tiny positive outcome IRL.

534

:eek: :dubious: :rolleyes:

[sub]Not that that changes my perception of the moderation around here, much.[/sub]

535

I have posted about sexism before. I think that at one time I commented to Shodan that he wouldn’t want some of the sexist remarks made about his daughter. He, in turn, was respectful about my point.

I don’t know that I’ve ever posted a thread about sexism, but I’ve certainly posted about it a lot. Marley, you might remember several of the times that I posted the definition of feminism: "The belief in the economic, political, and social equality of the sexes. I’ve also pointed out before that a feminist is not necessarily a female.

Do you remember any of those comments that I’ve made?

I don’t think that I have reported anyone for sexist comments and that won’t happen again. I appreciate the encouragement. And it’s nice not to be labelled as “one of the usual suspects” by any mod anymore. That seemed to be a phrase that was forthcoming when I was “whining” too much. The same was true for others who had complaints. That’s one of two reasons that I haven’t reported much in Great Debates. (I don’t think you ever said that particular phrase.)

And I do remember one debate post that began with “Gentlemen:” (The subject was appropriate for either sex.) I don’t think that the poster intended to be sexist. It just reflects thinking patterns that are pretty hard to change for some people.

Let me suggest that just as many African-Americans are very quick to catch on to coded language, some feminists can easily spot the “code” of sexism. It’s not that we are humorless. Many of the jokes that are pointed at women (and to a lesser extent, men) are about as humorous as a Holocaust or famine joke. I watch some hysterically funny comedians that make jokes about all sorts of things that I would find offensive if posted here. But their purpose is not to cure ignorance.

I wouldn’t dream of saying “boy” to anyone who had had to make a point of his manhood because of his skin color. Likewise, I don’t like it when a man says, “I’ll let you drive this time.” That word “let” implies that he can give me permission. Women use “let” a lot with men too. Men don’t seem to be aware of it that much. But I do know women whose ears perk up when it is used against them by an equal.

Being made aware of what is sexist used to be called “consciousness raising.” Something that may be just a joke to some can be interpreted as a putdown to womanhood by others. And until my granddaughters earn as much as my grandson doing the same job, I’ll point out sexism when I see it.

In my generation, women were locked in the dorms at night. Opening a door would set off an alarm. The men were in dorms were they were free to come and go as they pleased. (The women had to sign out even to go to the library.) Girls in high school took Home Economics. The boys didn’t. They took woodshop or auto mechanics. I say these things just as a reminder of the brainwashing that many women my age came from. The written word is so easy to misinterpret. Your joke may be someone else’s most sensitive area.

Language is important because it affects how people think about gender.

Thanks, Marley, for giving this thread so much attention.

– (Posted by “an elderly woman who’s gone off her rocker.”) But that’s another thread.

536

I don’t see why not except the men don’t have to wait in line as long as women do.

Tell you what. I’ll be willing to push for sofas in men’s rooms as long as each men’s room has a changing table installed.

537

Lookit–we know why men can’t have sofas in our restrooms: the first day it’s there, some dude will piss on it. That’s why we can’t have nice things.

538

Thanks for bringing that up, but as has already been pointed out, that was to answer whether or not guys have teabagged each other and whether that behavior–among fellow males–was seen as a gag or sexual harrassment.

You also seemed to have cut out the last part where I say I believe it’s wrong.

[moderating]Let’s keep this topic on track.[/moderating].

539

I appreciate that you looked into it. I am saddened that you took the ‘joke’, even if a shitty joke, route rather than saying it will be acted on the next time (and I’m certain there will be one) it happens.

I have to bow out of this. As noted in another thread, I know someone who was assaulted at the weekend and trying to support her while reading these boards is becoming too much.

540

I mean no disrespect to the women on this board, but no, I’ve never understood why so many women I know get really upset about how men leave the seat on the toilet up.

That said, any man who seriously tries to claim that women bitching about men leaving the seat on the toilet up is remotely comparable to a bunch of socially inept probably sexually frustrated men demanding a woman produce pictures of her tits on a thread in which she has expressed medical concerns is at both stupid and an asshole.

541

I appreciate your clarification on your position here. It’s helpful to have the IMHO mods coming in with another perspective on the matter for sure.

So, for the sake of further clarity, can we run through some hypotheticals so the rules are crystal clear in how they will be enforced? What if, for example, a man couldn’t ejaculate in front of women and wanted to ask about it and I came in and asked him for a pic of his limp dick. Would that be warned?