Their bullpen has been performing pretty well, generally, during these 4 games. I don’t recall any bullpen collapse this series. Has there been? Treinen last night struggled, but that’s not a collapse.
Yeah I they have a keep using Treinan problem more than a bullpen problem. The Dodgers have more talent and are healthier, so I’m not sure how could consider the Blue Jays a favorite.
Game 1: The 11-4 Blue Jay rout. Snell, the starter, gave up 5 runs, then Sheehan and Banda allowed 3 each. So the pen allowed 6 runs in 3 innings. But it was 2-2 when Snell got pulled, so the bullpen allowed all 3 inherited runners to score, and then allowed 6 more. Not a good showing.
Game 2: Yamamoto pitched a complete game.
Game 3: The 18-inning marathon. Glasnow, the starter, went 4.2 innings and allowed 4 runs. The pen went 13.1 innings and allowed 1 run.
Game 4: Bullpen went 3 innings and allowed 2 runs, both charged to Banda, although Treinen gave up 2 run-scoring hits. Both Banda and Treinen inherited two runners and allowed both runners to score. Again, not a good showing.
So, a mixed bag. Bad in Game 1, and extremely stellar in Game 3 when the Dodgers needed it most. But again bad in Game 4, allowing a 2-1 deficit to turn into 6-1, and probably costing the Dodgers any chance to win the game.
So, yeah, probably not a collapse, but certainly not great, either.
Great synopsis; thank you.
An unreliable bullpen is arguably worse than a reliably bad one. With a bad one, the starters and managers know what they’re working with. Starters can expect to gut it out or die trying. Managers know to go for broke on starters’ pitch counts.
With an unreliable bullpen, at every turn the manager is left with two unpalatable choices. Stick with the current floundering pitcher, or bring in somebody else to maybe shine, maybe flounder differently, or maybe just give away the game. Decisions, decisions! What’s gonna happen??!? I can’t bear to watch:
For sure at this point in the series, whoever starts each of these 3 games will be taking the next few months off. So there are zero managerial worries about not taking so much out of a (possibly ailing) starter that he can’t return next week in rotation. There is no next week. So one less parameter for the managers to trade off. Scant comfort perhaps, but something.
I think it’s worse than that, honestly.
Overall in just over 19 IP the bullpen has allowed 21 hits and 9 walks (and at least one HBP I think). They’ve allowed 9 earned runs, but also a shockingly high number of inherited runners to score. That’s pretty catastrophic, IMO. Especially because the “good ones” are generally the guys that Roberts hasn’t shown as much trust in (Klein and Henriquez had a combined 7 innings with 2 hits and 2 walks).
Removing Treinen helps a lot (7.5 WHIP!), but can Roberts bring himself to move Klein or Henriquez above him?
Of course a problem with a bullpen that ends up scoring their inherited runners is that makes the manager’s job even more hair-triggered.
A reliever who can lights-out the next strikeout or two means the manager can let the previous pitcher (starter or reliever) get a lot deeper into trouble before it’s time for the hook. A reliever who’ll most likely score whoever and however many he inherits means you damned well better not let him inherit more than about 1.
So you need a faster hook to get to a crappier reliever? Holy No Win situation, Batman!
11 innings, actually
Yesterday’s game was better. Ohtani pitched well, and taking him out in the 6th was the right call, but the Dodgers pitching kind of collapsed a bit after that.
At least Toronto did well enough for a game or two to come back north.
No team wants to be in a situation where they “have to” win the next two games. I’d still like it to go 7 where each team can and will throw everything to win.
And that nice catch Call made is definitely a show of home field advantage. BTW, on that play, if a Toronto fan caught the ball or slapped it away without touching Call, the umpire would (eventually) call NO INTERFERENCE right? I tried to read the rules as kenobi esp. has replied to my prior questions. It’d NOT be like that kid who caught the inside-park ball and it was (wrongly) ruled a homer at Yankee Stadium and not the guy at Wrigley who also clearly interfered?
Maybe time to put the playing surface at every ballpark out of reach of the fans?
The kid was in the front row of the bleachers (in the previous Yankee Stadium(, and that guy was about where Ferris Mueller sat at Wrigley, and that ain’t changing.
At Shea, where I was right in prime foul territory, everyone knew to give room for your guy to catch a ball. Other team, the ball is fair game if it’s inside the stands.
I believe Baseball if the only sport where a fan may legally change the outcome of at least a foul ball. Not sure what else.
Problem is, nowadays “everyone” doesn’t know. And the general nationwide public is not cool with partisan fans changing the game. Remember it’s the TV audience that funds the game, not the local fans. And especially not the visiting fans. In person ticket sales are a rounding error.
Pull out the front row or two of seats adjacent to the wall, erect railings in front of the new first row, and the problem is over.
The kid at Yankee Stadium is a hero and the Wrigley guy is a pariah who left under security, lusty boos and a shower of Old Style beer.
Those are prime seats at Wrigley, which hopefully will never change, and to block out the entirety of one or two rows at the current Yankee Stadium bleachers which span the entire outfield is a lot of seats.
Nets won’t do much to prevent interference. I didn’t get field box seats much, yet recall one time a ball was sliced at 90+ MPH that just missed the nets and smacked into the empty seat next to me (I think my brother was off to get beers) and beer would have been spilled had he been there.
On the back of the ticket, the TOS or whatever, absolves the Team when you catch a ball on your abdomen, nose or forehead or beer is spilled. Maybe it says do not interfere with a ball in play (unless it’s the other team trying to catch your guys foul pop in fan territory). One should know. (eta: if only for the inherent danger of some field box seats - yet I think they use nets liberally now).
Also, by memory, the area Call caught the ball looked like where maintenance guys were and they knew. Toronto whatever stadium is rather old yet even if there’s no low LF/RF seats also I think has a full row of bleacher seats where an outfielder could reach over the wall.
Well, quite the start of game 5.
Get the fuck out of here.
Three out of the 1-5 batters in the Jays’ order tonight (Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Bo Bichette, and Daulton Varsho) are the sons of former major leaguers. I thought that was kind of cool.
The human thumb is going to cost the Dodgers this series.
Pitching to Ohtani. Vulnerable on the inside and splitter. And lost his helmet.
Oscar Hernandez misplayed that big time. Let it bounce off your chest. A faster runner would have made that inside the park HR
What I was thinking too! 