MMO Recommendations

I can understand that – particularly if you enjoy group content (i.e., flashpoints and operations). When I first started playing, 3 years ago, it felt like it took me forever to get my main up to level cap (55 back then; it’s now 70), so that I could participate in group content with my guild. And, then, I discovered that I didn’t really enjoy that stuff all that much. :wink:

One change that they made a while back was that your higher-level character would get “down-leveled” on worlds and content (such as Flashpoints) that were originally developed for lower-level characters (i.e., if I go to Tatooine, which is a world for levels 24-28, with my level 70 character, I’ll be “powered down” to level 30 or so). So, it does make some group-able content (heroics, flashpoints) more easily playable with a group that has a range of character levels.

OTOH, pretty much all of the new content that’s been released in the past 2 years has been for characters who are at or near the level cap.

As a player who suffers from “Pretty Pretty Princess Syndrome” (i.e., I’m rather obsessive about outfits, esp. for role-playing), I can empathize. I hate how they keep putting male Consulars and Inquisitors into dresses. :wink:

[QUOTE=Skywatcher;19983291Champions Online is probably what you’re after but I haven’t played that in a long time. [/QUOTE]

Tried it. Tried to like it. A little too much like a Fisher-Price version of CoX.

And my kids were running CoX alts at 5 or 6, teaming with Mom and Dad.

I can’t figure out how I missed it, other than never being much on the official forums.

Yeah, well, somewhere between, “Let’s try the free trial” and getting into the Steam store, I got lost and bought the full bundle. So it better be good. :smiley:

I’m surprised. The market is clearly there; with all the crappy games churned out every year, not to mention the one-per-studio tentpoles, you’da thunk…

Good question! It had an amazing launch trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4mBS0SQfp8

What I love about this game:

  • The atmosphere and music are top notch
  • You can learn literally every skill in the game, and thus build yourself whatever kind of toon you want at any given time just by swapping out abilities (though you may end up carrying several sets of gear)
      • related: While you’ll never need to roll an alt due to this, the different factions all have a different perspective on all those same missions, which I find rather amusing
  • The puzzles in the game are hard. Cryptoraphy, spatial puzzles, musical puzzles, obscure translations. Fortunately, the spoiler sites don’t spoil everything at once – if you get stuck on a particular step you can just look up that step (keep a notebook nearby, you’ll need it)
  • The story is just stellar. Some of my favorite quest experiences in any MMO ever happened in this game.
  • Cosmetics. Weapons are the only stat items with appearances (the rest of your stat items are talismans and jewelry that don’t show up – meaning you look exactly what you want to look like, no sacrificing looks for stats)
  • They’re still writing new mission packs and creating new cosmetics as time goes on
  • The community of players in this game is, for the most part, helpful and respectful

There’s also PvP (optional), but I never really got into it so I can’t say much about it. It seems rather shallow and meaningless to me, but that may just be because I never bothered to get good at it.

I can’t really speak to the group content either (dungeons, raids) since I’m super casual and basically just log in to check out the new content nowadays.

Okay, lots more detail on TSW:

Combat should feel fairly familiar to players of other MMOs. You have a power bar and some powers have cooldowns. There’s an active dodge, and it’s important; telegraphed attacks are usually pretty powerful and/or carry secondary effects (knockdowns and other crowd control) that you want to avoid. (This is especially true in dungeons and in the late-game Tokyo zone.)

Setting, leveling, classes, gear, and missions are pretty far from the typical MMO, though.

Classes and Leveling
It’s designed as a classless system, but the common tank/healer/dps trinity holds sway in group content. Every character can learn every ability and use them to equal effect, however, so you can switch roles any time you’re out of combat, as long as you carry the gear for your alternate roles. There’s a gear manager that lets you save combinations of powers and gear, so that you can switch easily between them.

There are no “levels”, as such, though the average quality of gear you have equipped is treated as sort of level-equivalent–your “quality level”. As you earn XP, you gain Ability Points and Skill Points. Ability Points are used to buy powers. You spend Skill Points to upgrade your skill with the various weapon and talisman types; this gives bonuses and increases the quality of gear you can equip. There are other skill tracks that can be unlocked(Aux weapons, Augments, and AEGIS skills), but they don’t come into play until later.

Tip: Each weapon has two skill tracks. It’s generally best to pick one track for each weapon and stick with it. Better quality weapons are more valuable than the bonuses from the second track. (You’ll eventually fill all the skill tracks, though.)

Gear
You can have two weapons equipped at a time (plus an auxiliary with its own active and passive, once you unlock those). The weapons you have equipped determine which active powers you can use, but you can mix and match passives from all the weapon trees. This makes for a pretty deep build system, but there are also pre-made builds (decks) and lots of build recommendations online, if you don’t want to get into the build design too much.

Weapons (and their associated powers) tend to be fitted for different roles. Hammer and Chaos Magic are generally considered tank weapons. Blades are mostly tankish or solo survival weapons. Elemental Magic, Shotgun, and Pistols are mostly dps/support. Blood Magic can go dps or healing. Assault Rifle is the “leech” weapon; it heals by doing damage to enemies, making it very effective for soloing and for backup healing. Fist weapons tend to be primarily used for healing.

Tip: A Blades/Assault Rifle build is one of the most forgiving, survivable options for solo play and learning the ropes. It’s not as good in dungeons (where you generally don’t want to be in melee range unless you’re the tank), but you can focus on AR powers for those, if necessary.

“Armor” consists of talismans that buff various stats. They tend to be oriented toward a specific role: dps talismans have attack rating, healing talis have heal rating, tank talis have health. They can be slotted with glyphs that provide buffs to other stats, so you might see a heal talisman with a glyph that increases crit rate (crit rate is important to healers). Talismans do not affect your appearance–something CoH vets appreciate, since it means you don’t have to compromise your look to equip better gear. (Weapons do show up on your character model, but you can choose to hide them when they’re not in use.)

Weapons and talis take up only one inventory slot each (in fact, that’s true of all items), and your inventory size can be upgraded quite a bit with in-game currency, so it’s practical to carry a full set of gear for each role you’re prepared to play.

Crafting
The crafting system is Minecraft-like. You arrange materials in a pattern in your crafting window, press a button, and you get the item. It doesn’t generally see much use outside of puzzles and other mission-specific crafting until late in the game, when it’s used heavily in upgrading and customizing end-game gear. Every now and then, though, it comes in handy–especially for making weapons on the fly. Sometimes a team *really *needs one more shotgun. A few scraps of metal and some ability points, and boom, you’ve got enough of a shotgun build to cover it.

Quests
Not all missions are combat-oriented. Notable variations are sabotage missions–in which you avoid traps and enemies to reach an objective–and investigation missions, which involve puzzles and research. The latter are unlike anything I’ve seen in other MMOs, and when I say “research”, I mean that you will often need to open a browser (there’s one built into the game) and do real research. You may need to reference Bible passages, translate text from other languages, investigate websites, and many other things to solve these missions.

Mission contacts tend to be spread out a bit more than in other games, avoiding the densely packed “quest hubs”. There are also minor side missions scattered around the environment–you might get a mission by finding a lost cell phone on the ground, a note tacked to a tree, or a ransacked delivery van.

Theme
The theme varies somewhat from region to region. The starting region is an island in New England, and it’s got strong elements of Stephen King, H. P. Lovecraft, and zombie apocalypse. The Egypt region is a little more pulp adventurish, with an Indiana Jones flavor, though there’s still plenty of horror. Transylvania is vampires, werewolves, fairy tales…and Cold War superscience. Tokyo is, as you might expect, pretty strongly Japanese horror-themed. The underlying story throughout all the regions is pretty Lovecraftian.

Community
The in-game community is pretty helpful. I recommend that new players join the Sanctuary chat channel, which was created primarily to support newbies. There are other helpful channels as well (Badgers for achievements and Noobmares for getting started in Nightmare mode dungeons, for example), but the denizens of Sanctuary can probably point you to those as needed.
Okay, that was a huge wall of text, but I think I hit the most important stuff. If you’ve got questions, though, I’ll answer them as best I can.

You guys never fail to disappoint. Thanks for all the info and suggestions (especially Balance’s wall o’ text). Secret World definitely seems like it might be interesting. I’m going to do a little more research and make a decision.

In the meantime, I think I’m going to start up FFXIV again and check out the new stuff until I settle back into my “get all crafting skills to max level” for the third time until I get bored and stop playing.

If anyone here still plays look for Deser Won on the Adamantoise server (NA).

How about group size in TSW? Standard 5-person, or is there flexibility?

The basic team is 5 people. That’s what you take into dungeons. However, you can form raid groups of two teams. This is intended for the “official” raids, obviously, but it is also for less formal “lair raids”. Raid groups show you both team windows, but team-wide buffs still only affect your team of five. The raid leader can move people between teams, and there are distinct chat channels for the team and the raid. (IIRC, the El Dorado PvP zone automatically puts you into a raid, too, but I prefer to avoid PvP, so I haven’t been there for a while.)

Lairs are extremely dangerous open-world areas with super-mobs and summonable bosses scattered around the regular zones. Try not to wander into them alone–they tend to munch even end-game characters solo. Fortunately, there are audible and visual cues to warn you that you’re in a Bad Place. (A basso musical cue and the edges of your screen go sort of dark and…tentacly.)
The official raids are:

N’gha-Pei, the Corpse Island (Commonly known as “the Eidolon raid”, aka, “Did you just punch Cthulhu?”)

The Manhattan Exclusion Zone (“The NY raid.” Battle the Unutterable Lurker in Times Square.)

Agartha Defiled (“Flappy raid”. Players call the Bird of the Zero Point Pathogen “Flappy”, much to the dismay of the devs.)

To me TSW was a game with great story and setting and mood that had zero reason at all to be an MMO.

Unfortunately, I agree. In fact, a surprisingly large proportion of the MMOs mentioned here woudl have been much better as, well, something other than an MMO. TSW is very unique for an MMO. But it was and is really held back by that.

Perhap. I mostly play solo myself, at least for story content, so I can see that point of view.

However, there have also been major events that would have lost their impact or been impossible in a single-player game. The cleansing of Agartha at the end of the Whispering Tide–so much of the impact came from knowing that the throngs of agents gathered on the branches of the World Tree to watch the invaders’ exodus through the portal were real people who had helped to bring it about. The massive collaborative puzzle solving of The Rider Cometh event this past Halloween would also have been beyond the scope of a single-player game.

So, yes, a single-player game in the TSW setting would have been cool, but its existence as an MMO brings distinct value as well. I’d like to see more spinoff games like The Park, but with more active gameplay and longer stories, in the future. I’d also like to see more dramatic mass player events (as opposed to the mass combat gatherings that occur in various events throughout the year) in the MMO, though.

Take a look at Black Desert Online. It’s pretty fun. I want to get back into it but I’m just too busy.

Is there an MMO where the defensive abilities are passive in that you set them and they do their think and you can forget about them (or activate them to get a bonus or something that expires)? That was my favorite thing about City of Heroes combat system that I don’t think I have seen in other games. Having to actively dodge is too twitchy for me.

Also is The Secret World solo friendly?

I don’t know of any.

I also liked that CoH didn’t having manual facing or ranging. You activated a power against a target, and your character moved closer if needed and faced the proper way. And there was no flanking bonuses for hitting a target from behind. It kept the game feeling super-heroic–your character determined how well it could hit or dodge, instead of the player. The player was responsible for timing when/which powers to activate, and coarse positioning like to line up a cone- or AoE-attack.

Now, I don’t mind more active controls (I enjoy both Planetside 2 and Blade & Soul, for example), but CoH got the feel of super-heroic combat very well. And no one has duplicated that (to my knowledge).

Most MMOs have some mixture of passive and active defensive abilities. One advantage of TSW is that there are no classes. You earn experience points and when you have enough XP you gain a skill point and/or ability point. You save up those points and then spend them on skills and abilities you can fit into both active and passive slots. A combination of such abilities is called a “deck”. You are pretty much free to build your deck however you want, but with such freedom your success is going to depend on how well your various abilities interact with each other. For example, if you have an ability that heals you when you apply poison, you want to slot another ability that applied poison. Coming up with a deck is a fun part of the game.

With all that being said, you have defenses that are active and defensive. If you prefer you can load up on defensive passives and only have active abilities that cause damage. It’s very flexible.

But the game DOES have an active dodge, and enemy moves that you’ll want to dodge out of to avoid being stunned, or hit hard, etc. If that bothers you then TSW may not be your cup of tea.

TSW is very solo-friendly. There is content that requires a group but probably 90% at least can be done solo. There are guides for putting together a good solo build (usually a mix of defense, offense, and self-healing abilities).

Yes, TSW is solo-friendly. In fact, some missions are solo-only instances (a fact that the “MMO means you must team constantly” crowd complained bitterly about). Most people develop solo survival builds as well as role-specific teaming builds.

I don’t know of any game that has toggle-heavy defenses like CoH. It’s unfortunate, because it’s a nice mechanic. Most defense in TSW comes from gear and passive powers, although there are some short-duration click powers that are pretty important. I suppose the passives are a bit like toggles, especially since there’s no endurance management. Most active tank powers are actually attacks (to build aggro) and crowd control. (Tanks are the controllers in TSW; they use controls to interrupt dangerous casts from bosses. In fact, the rest of the team usually takes controls out of their builds, so they don’t accidentally trigger a buff that makes bosses immune to controls after being hit with a few.)

The lack of autofacing still bothers me, but other MMOs don’t do it, either. I don’t know why it’s not a more common feature, especially given that a little lag can throw your facing off. Yet another MMO problem that CoH solved over a decade ago, and other studios are too thick to copy the solution.

You lose precision of camera angle and orientation of character with auto facing. I’d find it terribly annoying in WoW.

Yeah, auto facing would be annoying in WoW, since character orientation directly affects combat. In CoH, orientation was a purely client-side graphical effect. Only character position and target mattered.

Camera angle was separate from character orientation. They could be locked together or not, as the player preferred. As a Scrapper in the thick of many mobs, I’d keep the camera separate from the character’s facing, except for occasionally reorienting when I ran out of things to attack.

Did you take it for a test run yet? If so, what are your first impressions?

I’m maybe two hours in. A little slow going, but I find most games to be that way… you’re lost, confused, have feeble powers, can’t make sense of all the HUD info, slotting is a meaningless jumble… :slight_smile:

But it reminds me a lot of City of Heroes and while the graphics are only somewhat better, I don’t live and die for realistic drops of blood running down my alt’s face.

I am disappointed that it doesn’t/can’t use a controller; while I spent years keyboarding my way through games, I have really come to love my PS4 controller for newer games.

The missions so far have been either trivial or utterly mystifying. I’ve had to use the wiki twice just to find out what the point of a mission tier is, and some instructions are utterly unhelpful. For example, one of the first things you need to do is “Talk to survivors”… but survivor after survivor doesn’t count, and you just have to wander until you find a particular, unheralded, untagged survivor who advances the mission steps. Learning/teaching/tutorial is fine, but the lack of guidance in the direction of a goal can be frustrating.

Worth the trial time. Probably worth the base game cost. I was maybe hasty in buying the big bundle, but we’ll see.

I’m not usually into PvP or playing online in general, simply because trolls and griefers are impossible to avoid, but I was recently talked into trying out Dead by Daylight and some of the similar Friday the 13th beta and I actually quite enjoyed them. Griefers don’t really factor in because it’s an asymmetrical PvP horror game and griefing is pretty much the whole point (and games are short so if someone is fucking around, you can just move on).

Someone could still troll via sabotage, or by leading the killer to the other players, or simply by not helping the other players you’re supposed to be working with, but those types of bullshit I can deal with, especially if game matches are only about 20 minutes each.

Anyways, both of these games are fantastic, great fun.

Dead by Daylight is 1 vs up to 4, everyone is trapped inside a large, enclosed outdoor compound; survivors must repair 5 generators to open the door to escape, while the killer must find, capture, and sacrifice at least one survivor to get a win. There are 7 different survivors (infinitely more with mods) and 5 different killers (6 with DLC, Michael Myers!), and a level-up system with perks. In this game the killers move faster than the players can run, but the levels are full of hiding places, barricades, and things to run around, and the players have unlimited stamina to run; the killers are much slower at certain things like climbing through windows or over obstacles, and they cannot strike twice quickly (there’s a 2-second animation of the killer wiping off their weapon whenever a player is successfully struck). Overall the game is balanced pretty well between the killer and the survivors.

Friday the 13th is 1 vs up to 7(?), everyone is trapped at Camp Crystal Lake; survivors must repair the phone line and call the police, radio for help, and/or repair 1 of 2 cars, and no matter what else, reach the road out to escape, while the killer must simply find and murder everyone before they can escape or 20 minutes have passed. As Jason you have several special powers, including the ability to teleport anywhere on the map. In this game the survivors can run much faster than Jason, but have limited stamina; if you cannot shake Jason before your stamina runs out you’re screwed (if you have a certain item you can escape him). This game is less balanced than DbD, but with 5-6 survivors there are enough players to split the killer’s attention and the map is quite large so usually at least someone escapes.