What exactly is a “hand laying” service?
At any rate, right, situations like your’s and yosemitebabe’s are violations of your rights, in my opinion. I just get angry when people claim that Christians are so persecuted in our country. They’re NOT.
I think their idea of persecution is having someone disagree with them.
Guin: in a way I was ambivalent as to whether I was being “persecuted” or what. Certainly my rights were being violated. And certainly at the time, I felt somewhat “persecuted” by my bosses and her henchmen, who certain had an agenda and at times made me feel quite uncomfortable.
If every Christian had been treated in the manner that I was treated, would that be persecution? (I don’t know, I’m asking!)
I would say so, because it would be more of a campaign to harass Christians.
That would be wrong, definitely.
“Laying on of hands” means to touch someone with your hands for the purpose of healing. I think this particular teacher was trying to cure a child’s headache. She held his head in her hands and began to pray louding. I think she was swaying back and forth.
It is an ancient practice and is still used today in many religious faiths – both fundamentalist, Christian, and “New Age.”
One of the biggest “debates” that I ever had with my daughter-in-law was about whether Scientologists were being persecuted. We argued about the meaning of the word “persecuted.”
Hell, that would scare me.
I appreciate the suggestion, but it’s not clear just how low the resoltion can go before it starts to look crappy. My printer is on the blink, so I haven’t actually had a chance to print them, but I’m using the rule-of-thumb that 180 dpi is good. (And I compressed as a gif, which, IIUC, is best for pics with a lot of white space.)
When I can print them, I’ll play with the resolution and repost.
All right, I admit it! I admit my Nefarious Libertarian Atheist Scheme to Opress Christians! NLASOC has been going on for centuries now, off and on, and you can see its effects throughout the Western world:
[ul]
[li]Tolerance of all faiths, even those who don’t eat hamburgers. Yep, it’s our work that Hindus and Jews and Mormons and, yes, even quasi-religious criminal organizations such as Scientology can live in the same country without engaging in open warfare. It was a tough hack to pull off, and it has faltered more often than we’d like to admit, but the confounding effect of having all One True Faiths co-existing in the same city is worth it.[/li][li]Tolerance of atheists. Some would classify this as an extension of the above, but I think it qualifies as its own effort. By making others accept atheism as normal, NLASOC has given people the ability to question whether they need faith at all. We haven’t been totally successful in this, as evidenced by the distressing amount of people who regard atheism as a faith, but it’s coming along nicely in most areas.[/li][li]Keeping religion out of public places: This one is always a more-or-less proposition, but it’s effective enough to allow evolution to be taught widely, for example. This annoys the groups we persecute to no end, because by not taking a stand on the issue, all governments must oppose them. IOW, if they aren’t with them, they’re against them.[/li][li]Seperation of Church and State: This was a massive effort, but it wouldn’t have been possible without the first stunt. In fact, it’s more of a way to enforce the above efforts than an end in itself.[/li][/ul]NLASOC’s efforts have progressed widely and well. Our work has accomplished such evil goals as the prevention of literally millions of deaths, the lighting ablaze of thousands of curiosities, and the rampant growth of civil liberties for all humans. Truly, we are pure evil.
Why did we target only some groups of Christians? Dunno. Boring Sunday, I guess.
[hijack]
When I was young, a friend invited me to go to church with her. I had never been to an Apostolic church, and I didn’t know what I was in for. I was so terrified when everyone around me exploded into gibberish and started running around, rolling on the floor, jerking, dancing and screaming, I burst into tears.
Seeing me weeping in terror, one woman pointed at me and screamed, “Praise the Lord! She’s gettin’ the Holy Ghost!”
Suddenly, I was surrounded by people, all of whom were laying their hands all over me. I was blubbering in fear by this time with all of the noise and confusion. No one seemed to hear me wailing, “No I’m not getting any Holy Ghost! Leave me alone! You’re scaring me!”
Finally, after what seemed like hours, I managed to sneak out, and find a phone. I called my parents to come and get me. Needless to say, I never attended that church again.
wow… that reminds me of those horror movies in which some guy is trying to crawl out of a gateway to hell, and all those hands reach up and start pulling him back down…
(If you’re a horror fan, you’ll know what I mean.)
Lissa, now I will have nightmares about your experience. Eeeeuuuw!
I agree with the general thrust of the OP, but…
cite?
I have indeed seen His4ever complain about attacks and abuuse on these boards. And I agree that she’s a fruitcake who can’t enter into a rational debate or discussion without whiiping out selective bible quotes as “ultimate” truths.
I can’t say that I can recall anyone on these boards claiming that christians as a class are being persecuted in America.
I may be wrong, however. Probably am, given the nature of some of the religious loons on this baord. But could someone find an example?
I’m a little ambivalent about this, Yosemite. I’m not questioning for a moment the details of the situation, or the validity of your emotional reaction. I also take full note that you advised your employer uprfront about not wanting to work on Sundays.
I just question whether your actual rights were violated. Legally, employers aren’t even permitted to ask about religion. In theory at least, it’s pretty cut and dried. Employer defines job needs and requirements, employee fulfills them in return for pay. The trouble is, there’s quite a bit of gray area when work needs change. If there’s a valid need for change–increased demand, shortages in staffing, etc.–that doesn’t significantly change the basic nature of the job, employers have to be very careful indeed not to allow value-laden, non-work related aspects of employees’ personal lives into the decisons. Work is work; faith, family life, etc. are out of bounds.
That’s in theory. And law. I run a unionized, civic, public-service place that’s open seven days a week, nights and weekends. Some staffers are observant Jews who love their jobs but really don’t want to work past sunset on Fridays or on Saturdays for religious reasons. Others are Christians who find it difficult to attend church services and be at work by 1:00 on Sunday afternoons. All of them have family and personal demands that sometimes conflict with work needs.
In actual practice, every possible attempt is made to adapt work schedules. Very few ask lightly, and most feel honor-driven to explain why they’re asking, even though often it’s stuff, by rights, we’re not even supposed to know about. (Though there was the one who refused to work Monday nights because of football on TV.) Heck, most of 'em are great about trading shifts, etc. because flexibility helps everybody in the end. But sometimes there’s no other choice.
Again, I’m in no way questioning your account. It sounds like you made very good faith (no pun intended) effort to advise them upfront of your requirements, without going into detail you didn’t owe. Calling you a “religious fanatic” was indefensible; legally, morally and ethically. Your faith should never have been up for discussion. I’m drawing a very fine line here, but the problem was their handling of the situation, not the work demands per se. (Not that you ever claimed otherwise; I’m just spinning off a point.)
Veb
In that case, I’d suggest posting two copies of each tract on your webpage: One designed to be viewed in a web browser, and another designed to be printed. Most people will only look at the smaller designed-for-a-web-browser one, thereby saving you on your site’s monthly download quota (if your ISP enforces such a thing). However, a few more “serious” folks will load the full-sized suitable-for-printing one and print it out so that they can hand out copies.
It’s where the paladin lays his hands on an injured party member and heals him. He can cure up to 2 hit points of damage per experience level by doing this.
Nice pickup, Ben! I’d forgotten the “Foggy Days in Great Debates.” 
Ah, you must belong to the Church of the 2nd Edition, then. You need to get the new 3.5 version of the scriptures to be up to date.
Nuts to that! The 3rd Edition is nothing but the work of Satan. (Imagine! Armor Class going up as it improves! Why, the Holy Gygax would be turning in His grave, if He were dead.)
However, I would like to point out that even within the 2nd Edition, there is a scriptural contradiction. The Book of Players Hand says that a paladin may apply hands-on healing once per day for a maximum of 2 damage points healed per paladin’s level. The Book of Complete Paladin’s Hand, however, says that a paladin may apply hands-on healing any number of times per day, for a maximum of 2 damage points healed per paladin’s level per day. How do the Scriptural Literalists deal with this contradiction?
Of course, Christians suffer persecution in this country. I cannot believe that anyone would doubt it. It has been attested to on several occasions in this thread. Examples of such persecution make the news, all the time:
The identities of the two families represented in the lawsuit — one Catholic and one Mormon — were sealed by the courts after students were ostracized and subjected to harrassment and intimidation. Their lawsuit alleged that the school district’s policy of allowing students to lead prayers at home football games violated the First Amendment by creating a “pervasive religious atmosphere.”
(Of course, the point that is ignored by those complaining of generalized persecution is that most of the Christians being persecuted are victims of other Christians.)
Speaking of Left Behind: The Movie … I just watched the sequel to it last weekend.
You can find my review of this (ahem) jewel of a sequel at http://www.hit-n-run.com/cgi/read_review.cgi?review=53625_rogermw.