Modern Day Christians in America are NOT persecuted!

I understand what you’re saying. However, I think it my case, since it was a part-time job, everyone was hired with not totally “open” schedules. High school kids were never scheduled during school hours. Moms were not scheduled during the evening, when they needed to be with the kids. And so on. I didn’t have kids, I didn’t have full-time school (but sometimes had night classes, and never had too much guff about getting time off for that). The boss made it clear that kids were a “good enough” reason to not work. School was a “good enough” reason to not work. But church was not. That’s flat-out what she said.

I found out later that there were many fellow employees who also would not work Sundays. Some of these people (all ladies) were Armenian. One of the Armenian co-workers told me that the boss knew that none of the Armenians would work Sundays. Apparently (I was told) all the Armenians at my workplace were very adamant about that—there was no budging with them. So my boss decided to focus on me, since I was not Armenian and therefore couldn’t possibly be as “serious” about getting Sundays off. She obviously was wrong.

In full-time jobs, I am sure this is more the case. It certainly is at my current job. But I think part-time is a different kettle of fish. They cannot demand all of your time when you are only part time.

Well, they were jerks. And it was not a good feeling, to have people try to tell me what should be important to me. Or “important enough”.

I also pointed out that this same boss deemed that it was not “important enough” for me to stay home with handicapped relatives the day of the Northridge Quake. (Well, to be clear, one was a relative—my sister—the other an elderly friend who had become family.) That was a bad day, the day of the Quake. Freeways collapsed, phones were in and out, it was a mess. I didn’t think I should leave my family alone at home. If they needed help, they might not have been able to call 911 on the phone since the phone lines were iffy. But the boss didn’t care. She said that had I kids at home, she’d have understood, but my handicapped sister and elderly handicapped friend weren’t “good enough”. (I didn’t come into work anyway, needless to say.) To be fair, I don’t think she fully comprehended their handicaps at the time (even though I certainly tried to explain to her). I just don’t think she was listening.

Because of these experiences, I do get mighty irritated at having to explain what parts of my life are “important enough” to warrant a day off. For instance, at my current job, there is a lot of pressure to work overtime. My bosses (before they learned better) used to call me every damned week, just before my weekend, to ask me “what are you doing this weekend?” If I was stupid enough to say I wasn’t sure what my plans were, (or if I had simple, trivial plans) they’d try to wheedle and guilt me into working my weekend. I soon dreaded hearing from them. They were basically judging whether or not my weekend plans were “good enough”, and if not, they wanted me to work through my weekend instead. This (as you might imagine) really pissed me off. (No, I never did work my weekend.) I soon put a stop to it and said that I’d quit before I would do too much overtime. No more calls now!

A spinoff thread from the aforementioned FriendofGod thread, started by yours truly, on exactly this subject:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60286

Dr. J

Or it could tell a person something about the way they believe, and the way they communicate that belief, and how they are lead (not just Bush, but the leader of the radical right Christian movement, who are the loudest and largest group in the media’s eye) by people who want control by any means necessary.

That said, it appears that most of the animosity is targeted at that group and its followers, but gets phrased in a generality–“Christians.” It is worthy of note that this group believes that they are privvy to the only “right” way to God. This group entails a large cross-section, from evangelical, born-again, denominationless groups, to evangelical Southern, often Pentecostal or Primitive Baptist, to Jehova’s Witness and their 1444 or whatever inheritors of Heaven. Except for Jehova’s witness, the group his very vocal and get a lot of media attention, and have a faction within congress that effects policy.

So the majority has a low opinion, and resorts to generalities. It is an issue within the majority of more moderate people of faith. I’ve heard people say that they are ashamed to be public about it at all because the label is justifiably inflamatory, and one girl winces when she sees these nuts on TV. Maybe moderate Christians should step up to the plate and reclaim their label. Get political and get mouthy with the radical right Christians. Shout them down and get yourself elected and be as public as you wanna be with your faith, without being controlling or falsely rightous.

Of course there’s no persecution of Christians as a group. Individual anecdotes such as those published by tomndebb don’t amount to a hill of beans – somewhere, someone in authority is persecuting the hell out of someone for all sorts of reasons, and the fact that a few of the people who get persecuted in the general well of scummy conduct that constitutes human existence doesn’t mean Christians in general are being persecuted.

The Christians who campaign for public prayer in school are not only not being persecuted, they’re deeply misguided. Compulsory public prayers drive a lot of people AWAY from religion because of their authoritarian, overbearing nature. The most heartfelt prayers are the ones uttered in private, by individual students, just prior to tests. As an atheist, I would not THINK of denying students the right to utter THOSE prayers.

Yes! Exactly! You hit exactly on what I was bumbling around. Employers have no legitimate business dabbling around in employees’ private lives. Faith? Well, prove you really, really believe and then I’ll decide. Family/personal matters? Tell me every last detail, but everybody has a story, ya know…

I’m not sure where the actual, wavering line is drawn between accomodation and control. But when the deciding factor amounts to no more than subjective value judgment, some crucial line has been crossed. In those cases, yes, I do believe actual discrimination occurs.

Veb

Touche! Unfortunately, I fear that the irony will be completely lost on the people to whom it applies.

Liberal = Communist
Conservative = Facist
Christian = Fanatic

The fringe affects perceptions of the middle.

Yes, I have visions of someone saying, “Wow- the Boy Scouts won’t admit Christians? I’m outraged!” I think, though, that the irony is so over-the-top that even if the occasional FC doesn’t get it, someone else will clue them in.

I think that what most Christians really see as persecution is driven by the radical Christians who run out (How do they get on TV anyway?) and yell “Close your cheeks you filthy baby killing sodomites, the righteous Lord is coming into town!”.

Then, I go out and mention Jesus, and get a reply like “Keep your beliefs off my anus/ womb, you fascist pig!” You then wonder, ‘Am I being persecuted for my beliefs?’.

Of course, no one can even identify my beliefs before I speak them, so obviously any persecution received is due to the beliefs of others. Hence my arguments with other Christians who poison any chance of any sort of real discussion with their judgemental attitude. Polycarp is better at it than I am. I just mumble non-sensical things and drool at people when I get really angry. But, we all have our gifts.

[hijack]
Why don’t you just call it PAULIANITY you ignorant BASTARDS!!?!!
[/hijack]

I’m still pissed. I’m glad Poly is here to keep me in line.

Ben, you’re kidding me! Ray Romano is an athiest???

OK, I’m renouncing my atheism. There is a god!!!

Anyone feel like converting me? I’d like something that doesn’t put too much pressure on me to actually do or not do stuff, doesn’t have a crazy fringe, looks kindly on partying, doesn’t want me to turn up to some building every so often (particularly early in the morning) and one with lots of fun religious holidays. I’d also appreciate a long history so that I can quote scripture to support any viewpoint I hold (“of course Oreos are the best biscuit ever, for doesn’t it say in the Old Green Book of Fritz ‘And God built an Oreo tower not more than 6000 hogsheads high and not more than 1200 quart-hands wide, and the people rejoiced for Oreos were known universally as a Good Thing and the Lord smote their detractors’”)

Add to that many rituals involving recreational drugs, no scripture against homosexuality or anything else two consenting adults want to do with each other’s bodies, and a general escape clause ("And the Lord did sayeth, “Let thee take none of this too seriously, thou twits, for that shall make me wrathful. Just use some goddamn common sense for Christ’s sake, or I’ll bash your heads together!” - Old Turquoise book of Quiche, Chaps 18-24)

And most of all, let Ray Romano not be involved in this religion.

Ray Romano not only is an atheist, but he jokes that if the comlexity of the universe proves that there must be a designer, then the color scheme of the rainbow proves that the designer must be gay.

I think I just got converted to gex gexianity.

Oooo! Can I be pope? I always wanted to be pope.

If pope isn’t available, antipope would be alright.

They may not be persecuted, but they are certainly mocked, derided, and made fun of. You’re no newcomer to these boards; you’ve seen plenty enough of it.

The choice of the word “persecution” on their part is melodramatic, I’d grant you that.

It dismays me that Christians are equated with anti-intellectualism. But then plenty of people on the board have expressed their concern about this before, even before this thread.

But a really crazy fringe, with all sorts of frilly stuff around the edges, would look faaaabulous!

Will the dinosaur-head-on-a-stick be part of this religion?

You chose…CATHOLIC
Please stay on the line and you will be given instructions on how to sign up.

You have changed your selection to…UNITARIAN
Please press “1” if this is correct.

Definitely. I weary of that.

It doesn’t happen every day, but in real life I’ve encountered some real pig-headedness amongst some people. It’s too long to ramble about here, but a few times I’ve been shocked by my otherwise really cool and laid-back friends about some issues. They truly do believe that what is good for the goose is not good for the gander. It’s not OK to make fun of a lack of religion; it’s not OK to be preachy and pushy and “holier than thou”. But apparently it is OK to be snotty and mean-spirited towards religious faith, and if any of us protest, well, we just don’t have a sense of humor.

There is a definite double standard going on there.

Well, it sounds ok, but, after this…

I’m thinking I’ll have to go with gex gexianity. It has been a long held ambition of mine to add ‘messiah’ to my resume.

Hmm… it’s up to you. I like the idea of pope, cuz that’d really wind up all the fundies - having a religion where a gay guy is the pope. But then again, you might prefer anti-pope… I won’t go into the details, but I can guarantee that the anti-pope gets all kinds of… perks… that the pope doesn’t.

Well, I’m not sure what that is, but I do like the sound of it. So, ok. After all, does it not say in the book of Streetcar! “and there shalt be a prophet who shall prophesise a dinosaur head-on-a-stick”?

It’s a sign!

Oh, can I have this?

You have just written my sig line.