I took the trouble ask your exact assertions, make sure I got them right, and then quoted them literally word for word in post 275, and you’re not sure what I’m talking about. I mean… how is anyone supposed to take you seriously at this point?
I give you 5 cites referencing scientific studies showing that illegal immigrant populations don’t correlate with increased crime, and you come back with a freaking anecdote. You know anecdotes aren’t data, right? Is this just a placeholder while you go out and search for actual evidence?
Don’t bother answering, it’s obvious what you’re doing. You should be embarrassed.
Someone said that in this thread about “white US citizens”? I saw some claims about native-born citizens, but nothing like that about “white US citizens”.
It would be clear if that was the only statement you’ve made on the issue. But earlier in this thread, you said that one of the reasons for deporting illegal immigrants was because of the rapes and murders they might commit. Do you still feel that is a reason to deport somebody?
Just as a followup, they found her body friday night in a field. Suspect is a white guy who has lived in the area his whole life, though, so don’t expect it to be making national news the way it would had he been an immigrant.
Nope, if a republican or democrat commits a crime he or she should be held responsible for breaking that law. Why should an illegal alien get a pass? Are they not in the country illegally, are they not working illegally?
Uh, Little Nemo said in the quote that you just made that the one committing murder should not get a pass. Can’t speak for him but I already pointed out that if the Farm owners had done E-verify chances are that that illegal would not had been there.
It was asserted without “data” but not without “evidence”. For example, if someone were to claim “______ never ever happened”, then I don’t need “data” on the rate of occurrences of ______, I simply need one anecdote of when _____ occurred to disprove the assertion.
If they enter the country legally but overstay, they may or may not be a criminal. There are all sorts of “illegally”- blowing up a bus load of nuns and orphans to having your parking meter expire. Overstaying your visa is far, far closer to the second one.
But I never actually made a statement to that effect. Or you’ll kindly link the post where I said that. I state that illegal immigrants don’t commit violent crime in greater numbers than other populations, and I gave good solid cites to that effect.
You stated - well, you changed your story, so it’s hard to pin down… that fewer people will get raped and murdered if we deport more illegal immigrants. Or fewer illegal immigrants will rape people. “Fewer” is a numbers argument, and if you’re appealing to numbers, then you need to bring data. Anecdotes are by definition not sufficient to argue “fewer”.
Or are we falling back to “If it even saves one child, it’s worth it”? I didn’t think conservatives were big on that line of reasoning, but cool, there are ALL kinds of conservative positions we can destroy if you sign onto that.
Pretty much incontrovertible that fewer people will guarantee fewer incidents of rape and murder. Also fewer incidents of double-parking and overdue library books. The effects on sale of dog food is unknown.
We might just count our blessings that no other proposals to relieve population density have been offered. These people already got me worried.
People here keep asking HurricaneDitka whether he’s interested in reducing the overall crime rate, to which he replies he is interested in reducing crimes committed by undocumented immigrants. Everybody is missing his point because we’re leaving out a basic assumption by the anti-immigrant right. They believe that US citizenship is a sacred right bestowed by birth, if not by God Himself, and that entering the country illegally is a violation of that sacred asset. They see the United States legal system as a closed system, and granting the rights of that legal system to anyone other than native-born citizens is a travesty beyond comprehension.
They reject the notion of the United States as an entity which should provide basic rights to all human beings; those rights should only be provided to native-born citizens. They are not reassured by the fact that undocumented criminals will be arrested and tried by the US legal system, because that would mean the criminal is using resources to which they have no right as a non-citizen.
So we keep treating the furor over the murder of Mollie Tibbetts as an attempt to paint all undocumented immigrants as criminals, when that’s not the point that the anti-immigrant right is trying make at all. The fact that anyone enters the country illegally at all is already a travesty to them. It’s not like they will feel better if we remind them that crime rate among undocumented immigrants is lower than the native population, because the simple fact of illegal entry is already a grave, grave offense to them. I’m sure that HurricaneDitka is generally interested in reducing overall crime rates, but in the context of this particular debate he is just infuriated that anyone is here illegally at all, and the fact that even one of them has murdered someone is to be laid at the feet of the fact of illegal immigration, rather than blamed on the fact that any population will have a few criminals in it.
For what it’s worth, I disagree with everything I’ve written here and find it to be based in ignorance and bigotry, but I think it bears saying.
I agree that what you’ve written here is based in ignorance.
For the record, I do not actually believe that “granting the rights of that legal system to anyone other than native-born citizens is a travesty beyond comprehension.”
I stated (I believe it was this thread) that I’d like to see a merit-based immigration system. That means I’d like to see legal rights, even citizenship, granted to immigrants.
The anecdotes are sufficient to show that deporting illegal immigrants will lead to “fewer” murders or rapes of American citizens by illegal immigrants.
There are all kinds of radical thing that could be done to “save one child”. There are also some reasonable things that can be done in accordance with our laws and values. I believe “deport illegal immigrants” is one of the latter. Other conservative positions might better be topics for another thread.