When I wrote that I was thinking about some of the more radical proposals, like “deport all the black people” or “deport American men” that I was asked about on the previous page. I imagine some of those could prevent some rapes.
Does this mean I can thank Republicans and the NRA next time we have a school shooting?
The NRA is native to the this country, comprised of people legally here, and forever a part of this country. ILLEGALS ARE NOT.
If it were just the news agencies, then I’d agree with you.
But it’s not just the news agencies, it is also all over social media, including right here, right now.
Are you just talking about it because it is in the news, even though you know that what the news presents is fickle and unfair, or is there any other reason why you feel it is more important to talk about his particular girl than the thousands of other people who have gone missing or been murdered?
Well, there is that. I am curious as to why this made national news, before it was known that she was murdered, before it was known who murdered her. To go down the rabbit hole, with the confessed murder’s confession having pretty serious holes in it, that the news story was worked up while she was just missing, that her murderer went back to work the next day acting completely normal, and I would almost think that here was something nefarious and manipulative behind the whole thing.
That the republicans have picked this story up and run with it, using this as the reason why we need to impose draconian measures to root out anyone living in this country without the necessary paperwork, doubly kindles suspicions that this is a wag the dog type of story.
In any case, are we saying that children brought here are somehow more dangerous than children born here?
I wasn’t blaming you. Just saying…
He has plausible deniability, so likely not.
It is your contention that we should deport illegal immigrants so there are fewer violent crimes. A sentiment I think is shared with other conservatives.
Would it not be better then to make it so illegal immigrants do not come to the US? It will never be zero but if you allow farmers to hire itinerant farm workers and be lazy about checking paperwork then doesn’t some blame lie with them? They are the ones enticing illegal laborers to come to this country. If they had not this young woman might still be alive. If they had been diligent in checking for legal workers this young woman might still be alive.
It may be this man would have come to the US anyway…we cannot know. But he almost certainly would not have settled in mostly white Iowa to hang out with no job there so this circumstance would not have come to pass.
I’m hesitant to deflect too much blame from the actual murderer, but yes, I think the employer may have some (at least moral) fault here. I’m not sure if it rises to the level of a criminal act that would support an arrest. The post I was responding to was “… they ARE going to arrest the owner of the business for hiring an illegal immigrant, right?”
Felony Murder?
Employers are only allowed to do so much. They are required to accept any document that “reasonably appears to be genuine.”
Part of the deal, when the government put a “papers, please” checkpoint in every single workplace, was that employers could be punished for rejecting documents without a good reason.
LOL! That certainly sounds like a novel theory. I’m not sure Iowa even has a felony murder rule, but even if it does, it would require some underlying offense, during the commission of which Mollie was killed, and to which the employer was a party, which brings us back to … what crime did the employer commit? AFAIK, there is none, but I’m open to new information on this point.
Did the farm in this case use e-Verify to check with the government? (No, they didn’t.)
So they did not use the government provided system to check if their employee was legally in the country.
If there are loopholes ask yourself why the government allows those loopholes.
Again I ask are you interested in reducing the total number of murders or the likelihood of any individual getting murdered.
Thus far you have been arguing for the former, so all you are really arguing for is reducing the US population period. The beat way to do that might be to promote birth control and abortion. Each additional child not born is one less potential murderer off the street. If Dylann Roofs parents had only aborted him 9 Americans would be alive today.
We don’t deport people who commit murder. We put them in prison. That’s legal for everyone.
So would you be okay with treating illegal immigrants and family and friends the same if it involved imprisonment as a response to the potential crimes they might commit? If not, why do you feel we should treat the potential criminals who are illegal immigrants differently than we should treat the potential criminals who are not? Shouldn’t we be treating all potential criminals, who you have said have the same slim chance of actually committing any crimes, by the same rules?
That’s different from what you said upthread, though. If you’re focused on the overall rape/murder rate, then there are much better ways to approach that. I don’t see you providing any numbers suggesting that deportations are the best way to reduce the overall number of rapes and murders proportional to the population.
But I think you’re closer to honesty when you move the goalposts here:
Here you seem focused on making sure that the raping and murdering is only done by citizens, not illegal immigrants. They can’t take our jobs or something, I guess?
This was actually my request to you, if you look at the quotation marks. State your assertion, and provide the evidence that makes you think that. I’m not much interested in hand-delivering you cites when you don’t seem to be interested in doing likewise, but since I don’t see you turning honest anytime soon, here:
National Academies Press found:
Those are some of my cites. Again I ask, where are yours?
I don’t know what you’re referring to here. Could you quote the statement you’re talking about?
Yes, I misunderstood. You’re right. Here’s a cite: USA Today - My son was murdered by an illegal immigrant. Neither he nor Mollie Tibbetts deserved to die.
I don’t know what you mean here. If you’re asking if I’d support imprisoning everyone “as a response to the potential crimes they might commit” then the answer is obviously “no”, but that seems like too stupid a question for you, so perhaps you mean something else?
Okay, maybe I was wrong about the above. I support deportation for illegal aliens not because of the potential crimes they may commit (although I believe it will have an effect there), but because they broke the law by entering the country illegally and the appropriate punishment for that illegal act is deportation. Is that clear?
Woah, make up your mind. Do you care about rates or about absolute numbers?
In absolute numbers, the immense majority of rapes in the US are commited by white males. Therefore, the greatest lowering in the total amount of rapes would be produced by eliminating such elements.
In terms of rates and as you’ve been told so many times I’m surprised it’s not engraved in your eyeballs by now, illegal-immigrant males of any color actually rape at a lower rate than white US citizens, so why would you want to go first after a group which clearly isn’t posing the greatest threat either by rate or in absolute terms?
Your concern about undocumented immigrants stems from your concern about the crimes they may commit, worked up by the right wing’s politicization of this girl’s death.
It is clear that you feel that the appropriate punishment for this crime is deportation, but you have not made a good case as to why that should be. The idea that deporting them will reduce crime seems to be a part of the reason for you making a big deal out of this one incident, because it is a big anecdote that goes against the actual statistics. If you were looking only at the actual statistical effects of immigration, both legal and illegal, you wold be more welcoming. It takes an anecdote like this one to try to hide and obscure the actual statistical facts, and try to make it seem that deportation for only committing the misdemeanor of undocumented border crossing makes sense.
If you don’t think that deporting undocumented immigrants will lower crime, then what reason do you have to politicize Mollie’s death?
Rewinding this a bit because of rating numbers:
Well, in light of this:
Except that on that day when Fox and Trump decided to ‘wag the dog’ and most viewers decided to not be led by prejudice.
As others noticed, it was bullshit to talk about the ratings right wig media gets when FOX decides to push news like a tragic murder to avoid dealing with terrible news for a reprehensible president. And when one notices that that approach was not successful for FOX to win ratings anyhow, then one wonders even more what the heck the “inference” from Bricker was.