More LOTR questions!

Regarding Celeborn’s kinship, Christopher Tolkien notes in Unfinished Tales that there are some unresolved inconsistencies in the story of Galadriel and Celeborn:

Originally Celeborn was viewed as a Telerin elf who refused to cross the Misty mountains on the great march, and who was living in Lorien when Galadriel met him there. Galadriel alludes to this when she says “He [Celeborn] has dwelt in the West since the days of dawn.” Yet the appendix presents a different story, claiming that Celeborn is a Sindarin kinsman of Thingol and lived in Lindon. There may not be a satisfactory explanation other than to just accept that there is an inconsistency here. Inventing an entire generation of first born elves who are never mentioned anywhere and who mysteriously vanished without a trace does not seem a better proposal to me.

Dude was bigging up his background to get chicks and it got a bit out of hand.

She always seemed kinda out of his league… :wink:

Celeborn, Beren, and Aragorn all married way out of their league.

Then again, so did Tolkien.

At least, by his reckoning. But you’ll notice that nobody ever talks about anything Mrs. Tolkien did.

As for Galadriel and Celeborn, my guess is that all the elves of Middle Earth thought she was out of their league, and Celeborn is just the only one who worked up the nerve to actually ask her out anyway.

I see. Useful information. I’m surprised no-one thought to mention it before in this discussion, even in answer to markn+'s post. I guess I’m the only one who didn’t know this by heart. And I guess no elves at that level ever had a child on the wrong side of the sheets.

Hung like a mûmak, possibly.

If you take his “Laws and Customs among the Eldar” essay as canon, elves can’t have a child on the wrong side of the sheet; having sex creates a soul-bond that’s equivalent to marriage, and married elves are psychologically incapable of having affairs.

What the perfect creature looks like to a devout Roman Catholic.

Wouldn’t it be funny if he had meant oak leaves?

Or palmettos.

Some Maiar are more like fairies/nymphs - like Goldberry (frequently considered a Maia) and Melian (definitely one)

And that’s leaving talking animals out of it completely…

Goldberry is a fey, not a maia. Fey are an embodiment of some part of the World. Though the category doesn’t get much use by the time of LotR.

So was Celeborn Arwen’s grandpa?

Mostly covered, but I’ll add some.

3). The region outside of the West Gate of Moria was once Eregion, and was home to the Noldor under the rule of Celebrimbor, the last truly great Elvish craftsman in Middle-Earth. He forged the Rings of Power. Eregion was overrun and Celebrimbor was killed in the war against Sauron in the Second Age.

Anyhoo, the Dwarves of Khazad-dum and the elves of Eregion bonded over their love of craftsmanship and were close allies. Also, Moria was the only source of mithril, which the elves greatly prized.

4). This was a change for the movie, but I’m basically assuming that Gimli didn’t join the death-or-glory charge is because he was a poor horseman.

Yes. Celeborn –> Celebrian –> Arwen.

Huh. He always struck me as such a cipher in the scenes in Lothlorien (in the book), I had the impression that he was Galadriel’s second husband.

And, also, Elrond is Aragorn’s many-times-great uncle, making Arwen and Aragorn very distant cousins.

Elrond had a twin brother, Elros. As both of them were great-grandchildren of Luthien and Beren, they were “half-elven,” and were given the ability to choose to live as either elves or humans. Elrond, obviously, chose to be an elf, while Elros chose to be a mortal man.

In the very early Second Age, Elros took the name Tar-Minyatur, and was the first king of Numenor (the bloodline which led to the kings of Gondor, including Elendil and Isildur, and eventually to Aragorn).

Bolding mine. That looks so much like minotaur, but I can never see the connection. Not like the whole Atlantis thing.

You say that with authority - I’d love a cite for it definitely being the case.

They were half- elven from both sides, actually, from B&L and from Tuor and what’s-her-name of Gondolin.