More Missing Nat. Guard Documents

Cite

The AP reports, after an analysis of Bush’s National Guard records, that not only are records missing, but the documents that were supposed to document the missing records are missing also.

True, some of the records they were commonly sloppy with. But …

Even without wearing a tinfoil hat, one might wonder whether a bunch of incriminating records vanished, as opposed to not being there in the first place.

Lots of interesting things happening this holiday weekend.

I’m not exactly sure what the debate in this thread is, but here’s a thought:

Hows about getting a 527 group to produce an ad with a bunch of Air National Guard folks who served with or near Bush. They talk about how they worked their butts off while Bush played hookie. They use clever langauge to imply that he was a disgrace to the Guard, that he didn’t complete his service, and is unfit for command. Maybe some somber music in the background. This ad was brought to you by Air National Guardsmen for Truth.

Or here’s an even better idea: All the people that insist that the events of 30 years ago actually stand by their word.

The events of 30 years ago don’t matter, of course.

He’s right about the DNIF thing. Since I started flying I have NEVER been DNIF, and that includes a back injury so severe that I could barely walk that I sustained in the desert last year and a forearm injury that I’m dealing with right now that leaves me unable to pick up anything with my right hand without some truly dire pain. In fact, I told the doctor that I would not take anything that would make me DNIF unless the problem was an honest-to-God quality of life situation.

It’s definitely a matter of pride for me, and for most other flyers. Those that have no pride in their flying status are usually the people that fulfill their initial duty and no more.

The problem, SPOOFE, is that as much as some people may say, and maybe even believe, that those events don’t matter; other people are doing everything they can to make them matter. In which case, it becomes necessary to fight fire with fire.

It sure does, and the SBVFT seem to be doing a good enough job at that.

Post-election, the Dems will perhaps come to realize some of their mistakes:

  1. Kerry needed to talk less about Vietnam. (As Bubba is now telling him.) Making it a ‘campaign issue’ was a mistake.

  2. The Bush ANG ‘issue’ had no juice. Nothing to it. At best, some records are missing. From 30+ years ago. John Q. Voter doesn’t care, and there is no ‘juicy’ aspect to the matter.

No disagreement here – anyone dumb enough to think of voting for Bush after the last four years isn’t smart enough to be swayed by Bush’s chickenhawk ANG no-show.

Well, John, you see that’s the problem. For the time period in question, there isn’t a bunch who served with or near him. There is only one person who remembers him.

Have you read the link? Since this is “Great Debates,” how about some documentation for his assertion that he was there if you believe that he was?

I have lots of people who can attest to where I have been literally every year of my life. And my grandfather was not in the U.S. Senate and my father wasn’t a U.S. President.

I think that each person has to decide what is important to her or him in electing a President and what is not. Don’t you agree?

How important is integrity in a President?

Which is more believable:

  1. My military records have been around for over thirty years. Some people say they are based on lies. Other people say the records are accurate.

  2. My military records have disappeared, but I was where I say I was. Here is a dental record that proves it. Also, a Lt. Col. remembers my being there.

Voyager, did you see F-911? There was something in the film about a name being censored on a record. Was that Bush’s military record? Do you recall what I’m talking about?

There is if you toss in bit bit about Bush having to get out of Texas because he got a gal pregnant, and forced her to have an illegal abortion. Enquiring minds want to know stuff like that.

Did the AP also report that Bush failed to control an unruly crowd that cheered the deaths of Democrat babies?

Ah, the Estrich Gambit.

The charge of a procured abortion is repulsive, even if it were true. I stand second to none here in my partisan fervor, but there is a line I will not cross, and there it is. If it can be proven, it means nothing more but that GeeDubya is a mealy-mouthed hypocrite. This has been amply demonstrated, we don’t need more evidence, we need a fair hearing of the evidence we already have. This kind of thing only makes that less likely.

We really need a “puking my guts out” smiley.

This will happen when hell freezes over and the meek inherit the earth. If we Americans made a habit of listening to starry eyed idealists, we’d be living in a libertarian utopia by now. There’s no evidence of a trend in that direction.

Why in heaven’s name not? Hasn’t it become clear to you that all the evidence of his hypocrisy (which is a charge that is wanting in terms of fully describing the man) has not been at all of interest to his supporters? They care not about perfidy in furtherance of a war of choice, nor of failings in the real war against Bin Laden, nor lies regarding stem cells, abuse and dereliction of duty regarding national intelligence matters, bald-faced handouts to corporate kin, threatening members of the house with a cut in funds for his son’s political future and threatening the Medicaid actuary not to tell the truth about the true cost of the Medicaid prescription drug plan. They don’t care that the Medicaid drug plan is a handout for big pharmaceuticals. They don’t care that the tax cut plan did not benefit the lower and middle class “by far,” but did exactly the opposite. They don’t care that the tax cuts were forwarded as a reasonable response to a budget surplus, and to a deficit, and during a time of war. The list is endless, but they don’t care.

Why on earth would you remove perhaps the one element that many of these people do care about?

I don’t know why quotes from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade keep occuring to me, but “in this kind of a race there is no prize for second place,” elucidator.

To paraphrase a French guy, its not only wrong, it ain’t smart.

The spectrum of the abortion issue ranges from a very large number of persons who are commited to the issue beyond any other, it is their Betty Noyer, nothing else matters. These people are of course, nuts.

Ranged opposite them is a very dedicated pro-choice segment, and between the vast majority, who are somewhat mildly pro-choice because they accept the notion that its nobody’s damn business.

No one is likely to be swayed by Bush’s (as yet unproven) hypocrisy as regards abortion, those opposed see him as their champion, they will simply wave it away. For those of us with the appropriate contempt for the man, this would merely be another example, toss it on the pile with the rest.

The prospect of extracting anyone from Bush’s committed base are slim, I see no good reason to abase ourselves for nothing. Be assured, I don’t discount your argument that this a serious goddam election. I might well be harder pressed if I truly believed it would be effective, but I don’t.

I don’t believe missing records will have much of an effect on how the committed will vote. Charges about abortion won’t have much impact, either. One can look no farther than the SDMB to figure out why. Those committed to Bush will find every means to ignore what the opposition says.

  1. When it’s pointed out that it rather hypocritical to call Kerry a flip-flopper when Bush has flip-flopped on things as major as the priority of finding Bin Laden, we can always find a Bush apologist to spin it all away. “Well, what had happened was, there’s been changes, you see…and the catastrophic success of the whole thing…” Yeah, right. Tell that to the victims of 9/11.

  2. In the pit thread about Barbara Bush’s “beautiful mind” comment, there were posters who suddenly adopted an extremely high standard for cite credibility. Apparently faced with the reality that spinning her comments into a more favorable light was just too difficult (even though Starving Artist gave it a shot), the Committed resorted to questioning the merits of cites on the basis of–you will not believe this one–the fact that they were inaccessible due to registration fees.

  3. Instead of admitting that Bush was not exactly acting like a sharp shooter the morning of 9/11, we have apologists saying that Bush did exactly what he was supposed to be doing, reading The Pet Goat instead of putting himself closer to the pulse of the unraveling events. They can’t even admit that there was room for improvement in his response. According to them, he scored a perfect 10 that morning. Unbelievable.

  4. We’ve known for some time now that there is significant question surrounding Bush’s service. Bush has yet to come up with an acceptable alibi that can be verified with official documents. However, that doesn’t keep people from calling Kerry unfit for office based on the allegations from the shady SBVFT. Never mind that at the bare minimum, at least we know that Kerry never went AWOL (can we say the same for Bush?), which is probably dozens of degrees worse than exagerrating a wound to earn a medal. No, the Committed do not see it like that. Even if there was no such thing as the SBVFT, the Bush-heads would find some other way to drop a cloud of suspicion over Kerry, just to keep people from asking more pointed questions about Bush’s missing records.

So on the basis of these findings, I can only conclude that the Bush League will 1)spin away any unfavorable charges, 2) the Committed will deny deny deny, 3) the source of any allegation will be tarred and feathered and then rolled down a hill, 4) and the cognitive dissonance will continue as it has been.

I am so cynical that I don’t even trust my cat anymore. Just kidding, Monkey!

I sat Bring It On. Given the support he gets from all the “religious”, “family”, anti-abortion, anti-stemcell anti-everything groups, it would show that he is not religious as he claims, and does not respect life as he claims. If one side can dredge up old things for smear campaigns, then by Crom, so can the other side. I say, cross the line. The first volley has been fired, and those who started the dirty tactics (or pretended to not know?!?) can now receive the return fire. Bring it.

At this point the Bushies have no right to complain about any mud. The only thing moveon.org etc. need worry about is if the smear has supporting facts, and if it will work. We need some well respected military man, a war hero, saying Bush and Cheney are cowards. In October we need a picture of bin Laden with the quote from Shrub saying that he isn’t important. We need well spoken people who have been out of work for a year testifying to Bush’s compassionate conservatism. Slime 'em with the truth

And Zoe, I believe John Mace meant where Bush was supposed to serve. This sounds like a good idea for an ad to me.

Maybe Tommy Franks can do it. He called Feith"the fucking stupidest person on the planet" so far. Or maybe the various people in Texas, who lost out and got burned in his various shady deals there. Then we can have various senators and military people with a bit of real hero experience to go after him.