I think this would be quite fun to see. One of these “sovereign citizens” pulls that baloney in court and then the judge says, “Great! Happy to oblige you. Oh, so you’re not actually a citizen nor a resident of the United States? No? Thank you. What about your children; does the same apply to them? Of couse you say? Again, thank you. And how many years schooling have you had in the United States? And your children; how many years schooling have they had in the United States? Let’s see…that’s 12 years for you…add 7 years for your child in the 7th grade, 2 for the child in the 2nd…that’s 23 years schooling for which you were not eligible to receive at the cost of the the United States or any government under its jurisdiction. Here’s your bill. Pay the court clerk. Now, that we’ve disposed of that baloney, let’s get back to reality.”
‘… As you are not a U.S. citizen, the court finds that you are in the country illegally. You shall be deported forthwith. If your country of origin does not recognise you as a citizen, you and your family shall be interred until such time as another country agrees to allow you to that country.’
I rather enjoyed the judge’s comment to the prosecutor about the judge having a judgment against him for (IIRC) a hundred million dollars by “the sovereign citizen organization”. So, who do those SC clowns think is going to enforce that judgment?
Hmm…what * would* happen if one of these jokers was found to have renounced their U.S. citizenship? I remember Cecil wrote something about that, and it pretty much required already being outside the country. (You have to do it in a U.S.embassy.) But these folks seem pretty determined. Is there any way by which a court could find that a person before it had renounced their citizenship? What would be the result?
I think it would be marvelous if the scenario described in “The Man Without a Country” could be done in real life.
There is a certain level of stupidity that deserves such a punishment.
Damn, I was too slow. After reading this thread I thought about that story.
Well, according to the IRS, they’d still be liable for taxes.
Therefore, they’d be resident aliens and taxed the same as an American citizen:
I don’t know how this would apply to other laws, and I don’t really care: This stuff is primarily a tax dodge anyway, and it’s amusing for me to know that even if they could renounce their citizenship, they’d still owe all the same taxes.
Right. It’s not like resident aliens don’t have to pay taxes, and don’t have to obey traffic laws. Your obligation to obey traffic laws does not depend on your citizenship. As for “diplomatic immunity”, you don’t get that just by declaring yourself the ambassador from Krepblapistan. You get that when the host country declares you the ambassador from Krepblapistan. And if we get tired of you ignoring traffic laws, we can kick you out of the country.
Thing is, suppose the freemen are right. We live in a fascist state, the laws were never properly enacted, it’s all a sham. Now what? It’s one thing to live in Nazi Germany and believe that the Third Reich is a sham, and you have no obligation to obey their fascist laws. It’s another to believe that all you have to do is tell the Gestapo that you’re not a member of their Nazi club, and you’re not bound by their laws, so clear out. What happens when you tell the Gestapo that you don’t recognize the authority of the Gestapo? They get out the rubber hoses and beat you to within an inch of your life, if you’re lucky.
And what happens to those Gestapo agents when you go before the Nazi judge and complain that they had no right to beat the crap out of you? Is the Nazi judge going to agree with you, and punish the Gestapo agents, and apologize to you and send you on your way? Why would he? He’s a Nazi judge, they’re Nazi cops, you live in a Nazi country with Nazi public officials and Nazi citizens who believe in Nazism. When you complain to the Nazis that under the laws of the Weimar Republic you’ve done nothing wrong, they’re going to laugh at you. The laws of the former regime that was done away with by undemocratic and illegitimate means are irrelevant.
Avoid, resist, sabotage, evade, struggle against, and survive the Nazi regime. Don’t argue with the Nazis that because you’re not a Nazi you don’t have to obey them.
I have to say I have enjoyed the linked videos a lot. So much so I searched out other videos in the hopes of finding more Soverign wackiness to enjoy. Then I found this video. Harshed my mellow vibe something fierce. I’d say if you try pulling that shit you’re lucky you don’t get tazed first and questions after the manacles are applied.
Quint, I just watched that whole video. This thread won’t seem the same after that.
My only quibble with that video, and it’s a huge one, is that they describe filming police encounters as an indicator activity of sovereign citizens. That paints with too broad a brush, IMO.
Other than that, pretty good video.
Hmm, burial seems a little harsh. :dubious:
Underground economy.
:smack: Interned! :smack:
I declare myself a Freeman under the National Electrical Code, chapter 110, paragraph 70.
My third-grade classroom had both an American flag and the flag of the RCC, both with gold fringe. Was I educated by the Vatican Admiralty?
I must join. See ya, guys!
110.70 General. Electrical enclosures intended for personnel entry and specifically fabricated for this purpose shall be of sufficient size to
provide safe work space about electrical equipment with live parts that is likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized. Such enclosures shall have sufficient size to permit ready installation or withdrawal of the conductors employed without damage to the conductors or to their insulation. They shall comply with the provisions of this part.
Exception: Where electrical enclosures covered by Part V of this article are part of an industrial wiring system operating under conditions of maintenance and supervision that ensure that only qualified persons monitor and supervise the system, they shall be permitted to be designed and installed in accordance with appropriate engineering practice. If required by the authority having jurisdiction, design documentation shall be provided.
You are subjecting it to your own interpretation, which is not mine, and you are stomping on my rights as a Sovereign Electrical Enclosure. Fascist.
That Quatloos site is great! I’m reading up on Oily Titz’s views on Flight MH370.
These liens are a nuisance, nothing more. They don’t really have any effect until you try to sell or mortgage the property, at which point you go to court to have the lien removed. Of course, this costs money and time, which is what makes liens so appealing as a means of harassment.
A lot of these tactics are popular with prisoners, who have lots of time on their hands, free access to the legal system as a basic right, and a less-than-perfect understanding of the legal system. They may or may not have any political or philosophical basis for their beliefs, but they know how to manipulate the system so that if they can’t have their freedom, they can at least make your life difficult. There are people at the parole board who have multiple liens on their houses because of some offenders who took issue with the fact that their parole was denied. So they slap a lien on some poor civil servant’s house which costs them nothing, but which they know will be a royal pain in the ass to remove.
I wonder why South Park has never done a show on this. You know, Cartman finds out about the whole “sovereign citizen” thing, and decides to exploit it. That would kick ass.
I ran the linked video without sound. Did the soundtrack have her identifying herself as an Obama voter?