Most common reason to be Pitted Appears to be Dishonesty?

Personal insults from conservatives don’t count.

What does this even mean? I am not attacking anyone for believing however they want. My complaint is that the hive mind of this board stifles dissent.

Which poster did I insult?

All the members of the “hive mind”.

Which posters did you have in mind as the recipients of the “holy scripture as given by God to the members of this board”?

It’s not just you, of course. This thread is littered with such potshots.

Then it isn’t personal, is it? It’s a collective attitude that I dispute. You might as well say that nobody can attack Trump because then it is an improper personal insult to anyone on the board who voted for him. This is weak sauce.

If I said, “UltraVires and people like him have no capacity for independent thought” that would obviously be an insult. Yet you (and others) constantly attack other members of the board as being part of a “hive mind” outside the Pit. But I guess it doesn’t lower the level of discourse when YOU do it?

You mentioned me by name. That makes it personal. Why is that distinction so difficult?

Ah - the unspecified “Usual Suspects” argument. As long as the waveform isn’t collapsed by actually naming anyone, the insult will never actualize.

Not interested.

So your alleged hivemind consists entirely of people who aren’t posters?

It does one other thing. It allows posters to comment on a perceived pattern of behavior. For example, if someone makes a large number of comments that “skirt the truth”, all of them implying falsehoods but none undeniably so, a poster can gather a lot of such statements from several places into a single pit thread. That would be an unacceptable hijack of most other threads.

Also, at least under the current rules of engagement, it is not the job of the mods to rule on “truth”. Perhaps for selfish reasons, i would like to keep it that way. And it can be hard to distinguish between intentional trolling and someone who is just a little dim and sincerely holds ridiculous ideas. The mods aren’t mind readers. While of course the mods try to keep up on the opus of posters who get reported a lot, sometimes a pit thread can put a poster in perspective.

There are downsides to the pit, too. But i see these as upsides.

Also, it’s time for my all too frequent reminder to dial it back, and keep this appropriate for ATMB.

I don’t see that it’s needed for that. Trump or Biden can be criticized in the Politics category, and often are. People are currently going on about the guy in the checkout line or the overly loud neighbor in Things You Shouldn’t Need To Tell People in MPSIMS.

It’s true we can only blast them in certain forms there. But I don’t know that we need a forum purely to call strangers names in. As I’ve said, I think it’s useful to have one in which we can discuss behavior of posters in ways that aren’t restricted to behind the scenes reporting of individual posts to the mods.

Correction:

Good thing I mentioned about doing those facts, cites and debating first, the optional final step to insulting in the pit comes when seeing a poster who is doubling and tripling down with cites that were shown already to be lousy.

Yes, it is usually the case that many of the supporting cites coming from right wing sources of info are bad and it does not matter that others do show to an opponent how bad they are, the pitted ones usually do ignore the debunkings too before they are taken to the pit.

Yes.

Finding trolls seems to be the most compelling reason given so far for keeping the Pit. (I don’t know how you do it at all; if I was a mod I’d probably give people way too much benefit of the doubt.) But you could keep the omnibus troll thread for that, and considerably tighten up the rules on pitting other posters to get rid of the endless mudslinging threads. Also, would it be possible to hide the Pit from trust level 0 & 1 users in order to avoid scaring off newbies?

Hmm, that’s an interesting idea, and almost certainly possible. I’ll mention that to the mod loop next time the topic of “changing board parameters” comes up.

Is the whole trust level thing even active now?

Seems to be on some level. Every profile I’ve looked at shows as TL2, Member. Started a thread in ATMB to ask about it.

This is problematic to me. People who don’t want to participate in flaming are told to keep out of the Pit. But then the mods are going to use Pit threads to make modding decisions. There’s no rule about not twisting the OP of a Pit thread, using links out of context, cherry-picking, etc. In fact, that’s been the history of Pit threads that that’s allowed. If that’s going to be the evidence for a mod action, the Pittee should be able to defend themselves without getting flamed in the process.

If the use of PIt threads is going to be used for mod purposes, IMO they should be put in ATMB where the Pittee can defend themselves without getting flamed.

Yeah, I thought that was how it got disabled: by setting everybody to “member”. Maybe I misunderstood something. I’ll have to look at the ATMB thread.