Most effective martial art for real world fights?

I was speaking to a friend who is a martial arts enthusiast/teacher who has several Karate (what type I don’t remember) belts of the highest designations which he earned in over 15 years as a karate instructor. About 5 years ago he switched over to a very different type of martial art which is a form of Brazilian Ju-jitsu which he claims is much more effective in real world fights than just about any other technique. The main principle is apparently that most real world fights wind up in wrestling matches on the ground in fairly short order and this technique emphasizes holds and techniques for “ground” fighting with the object being to immobilize and “choke out” (if necessary) your opponent.

He made the point that it’s not nearly as stylized or “pretty” in execution as other martial arts but it’s far and away the most effective, especially for smaller people fighting larger people in that being on the ground effectively negates much of the leverage-strength, mass and reach advantage a larger opponent might have in toe to toe situations.

In looking at “Cops” on FOX it does seems he has a point re fights going to the ground fairly quickly. Is this really the most effective “real world” martial art?

Discussed at length in March and April. Thread title “What is the best martial art.” You can search it from the top of the page. (I have to learn how to do hyperlinks!)

In short, BJJ is a dandy art and loads of fun. Has it’s shortcomings, tho, when facing more than one opponent. Also, most street surfaces aren’t as forgiving as a padded gym floor. IMO, an effective style incorporates stand up fighting, grappling, and the use of and defense against weapons.

You can go to any number of MA boards and have this debated endlessly. In case you didn’t know, probably the biggest name in BJJ are the Gracie family. They made a big splash when Royce (pronounced “Hoyce”) used BJJ won 2 of the 1st 3 UFCs. He recently lost in an extremely long fight in Japan. A good number of folks consider his brother Rickson (“Hickson”) to be the best fighter in the world. He tends to fight vale tudo, instead of strict BJJ or UFC.

One individual who stresses a practical streetfighting approach (not the only or best such system), is Paul Vunak. His system is PFS, Progressive Fighting Systems.

Here it is:
I’ve got too much time on my hands.

And like the prior thread, this is more of a Great Debate than a General Question.

IMHO, of course.

Hmm… to comment or not to comment… that is the question.

What the heck… you have to wonder about somebody who has several 10th dan black belts in the very short period of 15 years.

Almost all styles that actually value the integrity of their belts have the following time requirement for belt progression:

1st dan - 4 years
2nd dan - 2 years
3rd dan - 3 years
4th dan - 4 years
5th dan - 5 years
6th dan - 6 years
7th-10th dan - by merit only (sometimes 7 years for 7th dan)

Assuming he earned his 1st dan at 4 years, and has been teaching for 15 years that gives him 19 years of experience which should realistically put him about 5th dan in a single style.

Franky, I wouldn’t trust somebody who has clearly been attending “grandmaster factories” to tell me about the right way to do a reverse punch let alone about effective fighting styles.
Now, as to the actual question. As in the other thread, it is all in how you train. Style is irrelevent. You need to train to take damage, to fight with endurance, to fight with speed, to fight with power, to fight at all ranges and most importantly to develop mindset.

The Gracies train very aggressively in Brazil, which is necessarily the way of all BJJ schools (there are plenty of bad ones like in any style which is why … repeat after me … “Forget about style, and find a good instructor”). So, the Gracies produce great fighters, not invincible but great.

Keep in mind that police want the battle to go to the ground … with them on top. Clearly, the officer has a tremendous advantage from this position. Police officers are trained to take it to the ground. Also, if police officers used a striking art they would be routinely, even more than already, in trouble for excessive force.

Note, that the objectives of the police are completely different than that of the citizen. The police are charged with stopping and arresting the subject. It makes a lot of sense to grapple him to the ground and slap the cuffs on him (difficult to do against a standing opponent). They don’t want ths suspect to get away. In the case, of the citizen this is hardly the case. The objective is for YOU to get away which is harder to do when you grapple.

The ulitimate answer is to learn as much as possible about all ranges and develop the key elements of self defense:

  1. Speed
  2. Power
  3. Decisiveness
  4. Mindset

The last being the most important.

Agh! Glitch beat me to it.

I guess I need to work some more on trait #1.

People differ, situations differ, requirements differ, training differs. “The best style” does not exist.

How about Sinanju?

That’s the Sun Source of all the lesser martial arts.

Orignating in Korea, and closely guarded, the only known Western practitioner is a man named Remo Williams who apparently learned it from the current master, Chiun.

Sorry about the hijack, but I couldn’t resist.

One thing, though. I took:

to be more indicative of the OP’s lack of familiarity with Karate ranks than a claim by his friend to multiple Grandmasterships.

The most effective martial art in a real-world fight is Twelve Gauge Shotgun Do. With the proper tools, a master of this martial art can strike down his opponent at a distance without even touching him! The master of this art also learns how to withstand a great kick. And he doesn’t have to yell a “kyai” either – his tools will be loud enough by themselves.

I saw a type of fighting style in the paper, I just can’t remember it’s name! It was pioneered by Israeli freedom fighters, and the only rule was that there were no rules. Punches to the throat, eye jabs, etc. Seemed quite deadly if you think about it. The name was hebrew for “close fighting” or something similar to that. I believe it was called kang sauw or something like it.

I would have to agree with tracer. Without a doubt, masters of Ching Pow are the most redoubtable and effective fighters. :slight_smile:

Despite that, I do kendo…


When I was a seriouis warrior my push-button-fu would have defeated your Twelve Gauge Shotgun Do easily. I was able to strike down my enemies from thousands of miles away. And my chi was so dynamic that anyone standing within 3 miles of the wimpy Shotgunkai would have been killed, too.

I agree with tracer*. But the best unarmed martial art is “feet-foo” where you run like there is no tomorrow, and then do that zen skill known as “dropping a dime”. :smiley:
*altho I am a student of a similar art called fortyfive-foo, using a hoof of a colt to kill with small fast lead “bullets”. I prefer that.:smiley:

Glitch: EXCELLENT post.

Red Dragon: You’re probably thinking of “Krav Maga”. At least, I think that’s how its spelled. That’s one martial art I know absolutely nothing about.

Yes, Krav Maga is the martial art you are thinking of red_dragon. I saw a very impressive demonstration of it last year. Certainly, in the hands of the proper instructor it is a high quality martial art. Certainly, the instructors I saw and talked with were very no-nonsense, disciplined kind of guys who make the type of instructor you need. But this is not necessarily inherent to Krav Maga. Are there bozos out there trying to capitalize on it origins? Of course. Are there those who have had it drilled into them that it is a “Hammer of Thor” style? Yes, sadly so. So, as always, view the instructor objectively not the style.

As for the “no rules” thing. How exactly is this different then most any martial arts training that focuses on self protection? Does anybody seriously think that when they fight (in the dojo) they are really trying to KILL each other or even seriously MAIM each other by following a “no rules” approach? Of course not. “No rules” is a catch phrase… a martial arts buzzword. There are no rules on the street, this is a principle of any good self protection martial art, and not unique to Krav Maga.