Do people actually get intoxicated on aspirin?? What is the point of banning people from taking pills like that? Is it a ban on painkillers? Would an advil be just as bad?
I’d really like to hear the logic behind that, 'cause its batshit insane as far as I can see.
I’m gonna give my WAG, though I also figure you meant to quote FilmGeek, CynicalGabe. 
I’d guess that this particular branch of NAers feels that taking ANYTHING for pain is a violation, even an aspirin. And, it’s thought by some that you can become dependent on things like aspirin and tylenol. (IIRC, they say you get phantom type headaches, which is really your body wanting more tylenol, not an “actual” headache.) I’m not sure of the veracity of such claims, but I’ve found mention of people taking aspirin to “get high”. I still say that group was over the top, unless the person was trying to kick a pain killer addiction? Maybe then.
Man, there’s over-the-top people everywhere. I heard something like this come up in an AA meeting once, and it’s a good question. After all, nobody rationalizes a good reason to take drugs like an addict. On the other hand, addiction doesn’t mean you have to be a martyr to pain. The question was whether you should take pain killers prescribed by your doctor (the member had been prescribed something like Lortabs for a sprained ankle). The consensus I heard in the meeting made a lot of sense: 1) Make sure your doctor knowns you’re an alcoholic/addict, 2) Take only as prescribed.
Pretty simple. Number 2’s the toughie, though.
That’s not a standard AA thing. AA is almost completely decentralized and mainly consists of formats for groups that anyone can start. Of course, some of these groups might get a little wacky if they end up with an atypical membership. That does happen just because of the shear number of meetings out there (there are over 3000 in the Boston area every week and they take on all different kinds of personalities even though most are productive).
The typical AA response isn’t against medical detoxing. Far from it, most of the groups I have been to talk about detoxing (sometimes dozens of times) in their stories. What a good AA group is supposed to do is provide some informal information about the detox and rehab facilities in the area, wish the person luck, and tell him to come back when the medical stuff isn’t so critical.
There are those hard-core people who think any drug use is bad. I’ve never known anyone to go so far as to say that aspirin leads to relapse, but I don’t doubt it could happen.
That said, there are physicians who are aware of the challenges of the recovering addict/alcoholic who requires pain management. There are ways to do it without resorting to narcotics.
Robin
You can become addicted to AA, too. I swear, some people won’t take a dump without running it past the group or their sponsor.
Those isolated horror stories you hear aren’t because AA says it. AA has no real leaders and very few positions on anything. It is individual alcoholics/addicts that go around saying whatever they feel like. Alcoholics and addicts often have a somewhat enthusiastic take on things and like to preach it. If that is a regular problem, the person should just find a new meeting. There are plenty of them out there and most have zero kooks.
On the positive side, AA did make a rare move a few years ago and published literature that basically said that other drugs like antidepressants and everything else was between the person and his medical team.
Considering a lot of alkies kept a stash of liquor in the bathroom, (the toilet tank is a standard hiding place), it’s not always a bad idea. 
Physical withdrawal from alcohol requires medical management. Period. Any persons claiming AA membership who argue against this on AA principles forget their roots completely, as Bill W. and Dr. Bob made sure each “new member” got medically detoxed first, before engaging them in the program.
I’ve been to thousands of different AA groups (and hundreds of NA groups) and in my experience, most of them are pretty damn good. But there are some sick groups, which are run by rather unhealthy, controlling individuals. They need to be avoided like the plague. And some NA groups do tend to attract folks who think all medications are bad.
It’s rather like someone who switches to a healthy diet then gets confronted by a militant vegan who demands that the healthy dieter must follow their way of dieting to be truly healthy. There are nutjobs everywhere.
QtM, MD and clean and sober thanks to groups like AA and NA for over 15 years. And yeah, I’m a fuzzy atheist and free-thinker too. Go figure.
Just for the record… she was in rehab for crack and heroin. Her sponsor told her that “any drug is a bad drug” and that she was a bad person for having caved to a headache. She relapsed to crack a few days later, lost her job (which is how I knew her) and was kicked out of NA. She screwed up, and lost her support system, which will only lead to more screwups.
I made the mistake of riding in a car with her. She asked me to let her know if she was going to hit something because “sometimes I get a little dissociative”.
AA (and other 12 steps) always struck me as something not for me (and I’m only addicted to caffeine and backrubs), but massively helpful to others.
I read the thread title, then the OP…
I’m still trying to figure out what any of it has to do with AA.
AA leaves the medical stuff to the professionals. If you run into an asshole at a meeting, go to a different meeting.
But it’s always easier to slag AA…
How is that possible? It doesn’t work that way.
Sorry your friend found a bad group.
Lortab for a sprained ankle?? Doctor, Doctor! My neck is stiff, gimme some Oxys!
Good grief. That is why they should be taking an aspirin as opposed to seeking narcotics.
No kidding. Old habits die hard, I guess. Many junkies doctor-shopped for years claiming soft-tissue injuries from car accidents, falls, etc, in order to get the “good stuff”- Oxys or whatever.
Personally, I have never had apin that an 800 mg Motrin couldn’t fix. But then again, I’m a junkie, so go figure. Pain meds just weren’t my deal.
Any 12-step group (or member, unless they’re an MD) that tries to tell you how to treat a medical condition is overstepping it’s bounds (so to speak). Medical issues should be discussed with a physician, and a sponsor perhaps.
That would be PAIN.
:rolleyes:
Speaking as a doctor who is stingy with opiates, and a recovering opiate addict myself, let me say that acute injuries like sprained ankles often do need strong pain killers, up to and including opiates in some situations and for some people, including some addicts.
Severe soft tissue injuries are some the the most painful kind of injuries known. A bad sprain can be about 5 times as painful as a clean break, and I wouldn’t hesitate to give hydrocodone to someone with such an injury. You can generally tell that the sprain is severe because the ankle is twice normal size, black and purple as all getout, and the pain response to the exam is both appropriate and strong.
So I guess if one AA group doesn’t do it for you, don’t give up – try another and even another. It’s a little like looking for the right therapist.
I’ve heard recently that physical addictions become part of the “primitive” brain and that’s why it’s not just a simple matter of will power for many people. But it can be done.
Qadgop, one of my favorite physicians became an opiate addict about thirty-five years ago. He was young, very gifted and much loved by his patients in the small town that he served. He was found dead of an overdose in a hotel room. I have never quite gotten over my feelings about it. It really means something to me that you told your background here and that you made it come out right. I don’t know whether the tears stinging my eyes are for you or for the long lost.
Clean and sober alcoholic here. 14 years.
Did rehab
Did out patient
Do AA
Take meetings into rehab places
Take meetings into hospitals
The meetings being described here seem to be of two types, that in the thousands of AA, NA, CA, SA, OA meetings that I have attended in over 30 states and every social and monetary background, are being reported either second hand or by people that only went to a single group. ( for the most part, maybe one or two that had bad experiences for all the groups ( 15 ) say that they went to. I’d like a list because I have AA and NA, and CA friends all over the country and I will have these meetings checked out because they are really going against the norm and causing much trouble.
Conversely, I listened to a guy scream about getting kicked out of AA. I was there when it happened.
He was drunk and ranting in peoples faces. He was told to “SHUT UP”.
He was never told to leave nor asked to do anything. He just left in a huff because he was told to shut up and not scream at people when it was their turn to talk.
He did a lot of damage to people who wanted to get sober because he could “Prove” that AA was bad and would throw people out.
So, meetings are not secret, they are listed in directories. Please send the name and addresses of the groups and the days and times of the meetings and I assure, they will be looked at.
All a person has to do is go attend a meeting and in 15 minutes you can pretty well tell if they would allow some hard line idiot to say or do those things to a newbie.
I have seen a few old farts like myself get carried away by someone who comes in for a week straight drunk every time, whining about not being able to get sober and that AA or NA does not work. Even when that is the case, unless there is extreme problems with the newbie, the cranky old fart is the one told to be quiet.
99.9% of the people thrown out of an AA meeting were either falling down drunk and would not be quiet or go with a few for help in a separate room or were only told to ‘shut up’ because they would not be allowed to control the meeting for only themselves.
These meetings have no leader, sergeant at arms nor enforcers. How can they make you leave?
*:::The amount of misinformation in this thread alone will prolly kill at least three people in the next month because they will have the Wrong Straight Dope from the SDMB ::: *
YMMV
Rational Recovery or groups which adopt a similar attitude towards alcohol abuse are a valid alternative to AA theory.
Speaking as a former, out-of-control, long-time abuser of alcohol, severely physically dependent, who used diazepam successfully to relieve the symptoms of withdrawal and continued the use of the drug well after an MD would have even considered its benefit, I know which of the two addictions I’d prefer. Alcohol + a benzo = bad news, however, in most cases, especially across the long haul.
I hope this guy you know can at least get 3-4 days at a clinic which will do its best to ensure he doesn’t die during withdrawal. Once he’s no longer drinking, i.e., no longer an alcoholic, then would be an appropriate time to think about some treatment for whatever compulsions lie at the heart of his desire to abuse drugs. At the very least, he could work out, if he has an organized spirit, some kind of schedule for his drinking which won’t leave him completely paralyzed when he’s dry, if he doesn’t mind shortening his life in exchange for whatever pleasure the drug can bring to him.
i once had a friend whose AA sponser convinced his parents that they should kick hime out of the house if he ever touched ANY drug again. he is a “recovering” heroin addict (as am i, and a “recovering” coke addict, i’ve been clean for a few months now with no desire to start again, and i’ve done it without any external help) and his parents recently kicked him out for drinking and smoking pot. he lives in his car now. btw, i live in utah and it is VERY cold this time of year. i worry about him ALOT.
GusNSpot, I’ve been to meetings all over the country. So I’m not basing my experiences on just one group.
However, what several people said is correct: It’s not AA that is at the root of the problem, it’s a group of individuals with a particular worldview that is at the root of the problem. The issue here is that people can go away with the impression that these people ARE speaking for AA, and that what they are espousing is part of the AA program.
I’ve been a member of groups I’ve loved; the people really cared about each other. I’ve also had dealings with a number of people who were True Believers; all you needed was AA and if you went to counseling or took any kind of medication, you weren’t “sober”, whatever that meant to them.
I’ve seen grown men get into an argument because the first skipped what would have been his second meeting that day to take his son to a baseball game. The second demanded to know if the first man “cared about his recovery”. The first told the second to mind his own damn business, and it escalated from there. All this over a damn meeting.
Unfortunately, my experiences with these individuals have really put me off meetings in general. I know what I need, and that’s between me and me.
Robin