Um, you did notice the word IF in my post responding to yours, right? Do you know what IF means?
Granted. But not being June Cleaver is not the same thing as being a failed mother.
“Not being a bad mom”? No, I’m just pointing out that hysterical claims that she’s definitely an utter failure as a mother are not supported by the facts as we know them.
Gosh, how remiss of them not to have remembered to press the “instill aversion to murder” button in their children’s psyches at some point.
Because the way you describe it, it’s as simple as that. You can determine what your adult children will do by performing some routine instillation procedure of desired moral qualities. And if your children end up doing something really bad in adulthood, it’s your fault for not having performed the instillation.
I don’t think that’s a useful or valid way to regard the moral choices of adults. We know from countless examples that there are adults who do bad things despite having been taught as children that doing bad things is wrong.
Well, some posters do still maintain their habit of using reason and logic, even in the Pit. But I apologize for having inadvertently mistaken you for one of those posters.
Empathy? Well I’ll tell ya what, I empathize with the man who lost his son, part of his wife’s brain, and part of his daughter’s leg.
This bitch deserves no sympathy. Have you seen her? Have you heard her? She’s not sad, she is angry. She should be ashamed to show her face, yet jumps in front of a camera to rant like an idiot.
You make a mockery of parenting to joke that its as easy as pushing a button. Parenting is a hard job. I would say all parents fail in some way. Let me ask you something, if raising two cold blooded murderers of innocents does not qualify as an utter failure as a parent, what do you consider failure? Please do be logical and reasonable, I have not witnessed such in your posts thus far. Just because the younger one is just sooooo cute! does not mean he was raised properly.
It doesn’t, because the actions of individual adults—up to and including the cold-blooded murder of innocents—are the responsibility of the adults who commit those actions, not of their parents.
It’s a parent’s job to love, care for, support, teach and guide their children. It’s not a parent’s job to guarantee that their children won’t do evil things once they’ve become adults. That’s simply not possible.
There are countless people who were raised by loving and ethical parents who went on to do evil things in adulthood. Conversely, there are also countless people who were raised by really shitty and/or crazy and/or irresponsible parents who turned out okay.
Sure, parental behavior has considerable influence on how their children turn out, but it’s absolutely not determinative. Any parent, no matter how loving and principled, can have a kid who becomes a messed-up or just plain evil adult.
Those parents fortunate enough not to have had to deal with such a situation often don’t realize just how lucky they’ve been. The ones who smugly congratulate themselves on their children’s successful adulthoods and sneer at other parents whose children’s lives disintegrate into evil or misery are like somebody born on third base who thinks he hit a triple.
If Tsarnaeva and/or her husband deliberately encouraged their sons to become murderers, then of course they’re failures as parents, not to mention monsters of viciousness. If the Tsarnaev parents tried to raise their sons to be good people and they chose as adults to become murderers, then attempting to paint that as somehow the parents’ fault is just a contemptible smear.
That’s because you’re not very good at recognizing logic and reason when you see them.
You are acting as if the mother of these children has spoken out against the horrible atrocities her spawn hath wrought and disavowed any personal connection to the beliefs that brought them to the conclusions they drew. Since I don’t believe this is the case I don’t know what the fuck you are talking about.
Kleptomom, A/K/A MommaSpeedbump, does seem to have a distorted world view.
Perhaps she needs to be returned to whatever third-world hellhole whense she came and told not to return?
No, I’m not. If I were, I would say something along the lines of “the mother of these children has spoken out against the horrible atrocities her spawn hath wrought and disavowed any personal connection to the beliefs that brought them to the conclusions they drew”. Since that isn’t true, I’m not saying it.
What I am saying is that we don’t know whether Tsarnaeva was involved in any way in the crimes her sons are apparently responsible for, or whether she is morally opposed to such acts.
It does seem clear that she professes some nutty and paranoid ideas, such as that 9/11 was masterminded by the US government as a plot to encourage anti-Muslim sentiment, and that her sons were innocent victims of a frame-up along the same lines with the Boston bombings. However, plenty of people profess nutty and paranoid ideas without being terrorists, or complicit in the crimes of terrorists, or “utter failures” at the job of parenting.
Like I said, I’m perfectly okay with Pitting Tsarnaeva for stuff she herself is known to have done, like professing nutty and paranoid ideas, or shoplifting. But you can’t rationally infer that just because somebody is somewhat nutty and paranoid or a petty criminal she therefore must be in favor of blowing up hundreds of innocent people, or that if her adult sons blow up hundreds of innocent people she must somehow be responsible for it.
“Returned” from where by whom? You do know that both parents left the US some time ago and are staying in Dagestan in Russia, right? That is where Tsarnaeva came from.
Your defense does indeed imply such an attitude. In in your most recent posts it’s as if you ignore the point made by others that this is not just one rogue son that went off the rails, it was two. Also, you seem to want to gloss over the fact that she has demonstrated zero remorse, only blame and the usual “blame the U.S.” mentality. You’re being dense here. The evidence we do have at this point points to her being a miserable failure as both a mother and a human being.
The fact that you rush to come to her defense is odd, to say the least. Serious question: without revealing any details too personal, has their been someone in your family, circle of friends, who went off the rails and did despicable things?
No, I think my use of the word “sons” makes it quite clear that I know there were two sons involved.
On the contrary, what is really getting ignored here is the fact that Tsarnaeva has two daughters as well as two sons, and AFAICT neither daughter is considered to be at all implicated in the bombings. Any of you “blame the mommy” finger-pointers want to take a stab at reconciling that piece of evidence with your claims that Tsarnaeva is an “utter failure” as a mother? :dubious:
Remorse for what? According to everything she’s said so far, Tsarnaeva believes that her sons didn’t commit the bombings. Naturally, in her bizarre world-view, it’s the people who are accusing her sons of the crime who are to blame, not the sons themselves.
I’m not saying that Tsarnaeva is being reasonable about this, but being nutty and paranoid doesn’t automatically make somebody a monster or a “miserable failure as a human being”. It’s hardly unnatural for a mother to cling to the conviction, even in the teeth of all available evidence, that her children are good people and can’t possibly have done terrible things. Not just mothers, either: the suspects’ aunt has also been saying that they couldn’t have committed the bombings because they’re good boys.
No, thank heavens, there has not. Unfortunately, there have been people close to me who went off the rails with **self-**destructive behavior (despite the continued best efforts of their very loving and conscientious parents, none of whom btw is me, on account of I’ve never had any kids). And in those cases too, I’ve seen how outsiders tend to reflexively assume that the parents (particularly the mother :dubious: ) must have done something seriously wrong or must have been able to prevent this if only they weren’t such miserable failures as parents.
But I’m thankful to say that I’ve never personally known anybody who has done any harm to anyone besides themselves. The knee-jerk “blame the mommy” schtick seems to be pretty much the same in both cases, though.