Moulin Rouge in Amazing Smell-o-Vision

[Fenris]

or
“Lady, just because there are whores on the Screen, you don’t have to smell like one.”

This was just weird, gross and very annoying.

I went to see Moulin Rouge on Sunday. (It was pretty good, thanks for asking. The visual imagery was stunning and the frenetic pace nicely complimented the dense multi-layered visuals) in a fairly crowded theater.

However, about one out of three times when we saw the ladies of negotiable virtue, the woman behind me would trowel on another layer of perfume. I’m not sure what she hoped to accomplish, other than an attempt at recreating Smell-O-Rama to generate the ambience of the Moulin Rouge.

The dancers come out to “Lady Marmalade” and I’d hear a spritzing sound and get a whiff of rotting flowers and bubblegum.

They’re trying to convince the Duke to fund the show. < spritz, spritz >, < snifffff? >, < gag, retch >

Nichole Kidman is singing with whatshisname on the roof and whatshisname…Christan is professing his love to her. < spritz, spritz >, < snifffff? >, < gag, retch >

The Duke takes Kidman and Christian on a picnic. < spritz, spritz >, < snifffff? >, < gag, retch >

The Duke does dinner with Kidman. < spritz, spritz >, < snifffff? >, < gag, retch >

The big Latin dance number < spritz, spritz >, < Fenris thinks: "Oh no. Not again. >, :: holds breath ::, < time passes >, :: holds breath some more ::, <gasps, inhales stench>, < gag, retch >

During the “Show” < spritz, spritz >, < thinks: "Oh no. Not again. > :: Fenris tries to breath through shirt ::, :: holds breath some more :: <gasps, inhales stench>, < gag, retch >

And before anyone asks, it’s because there was no place to move to, and the person that I was with hates it when I get management, or make a fuss, or confront someone in public, that’s why.

So, Fuck You Stinky Bitch. Fuck your stench. If you’d bathe, you probably wouldn’t need to pour on perfume. And if you were less of a skanky ‘ho’, you wouldn’t think that dousing yourself in chemicals would get your boyfriend to pay more attention to you.

Bitch

Fenris

[Skywatcher]

Maybe she’s French?

[Mr.Cynical]

I would like to point out that not EVERYONE from Colorado forgets which forum he’s posting in

Feels like it’s time for another Denver Dopefest.

[Fenris]

*Originally posted by Manservant Hecubus *
**I would like to point out that not EVERYONE from Colorado forgets which forum he’s posting in

Feels like it’s time for another Denver Dopefest. **

AAAAarrgh! Euty!, UncleBeer!, Coldie!, sorry for the extra work. Can someone move this to the pit?

:: bangs head on the desk ::

Fenris

[wring]

*Originally posted by Fenris *
**and the person that I was with hates it when I get management, or make a fuss, or confront someone in public, that’s why.
**

well, perhaps if you had stuck with mags & me, you wouldn’t have had this problem.

[trose]

Re-read your thread title and first line, and imagine where I thought this was leading …

EEEEWWWWWW!!!

[magdalene]

Oh how I hate perfume. Oh how I hate perfume in hot, crowdes spaces. Oh how I hate people who spray perfume near me. Oh how I feel your pain.

I woulda let you make a scene, though.

[Mandelstam]

Hey, Fenris, I know this is the Pit, but what’s up with you and calling women bitches?

At least in your thread about castrating bitches you seem to be blaming advertisers for bombarding you with images of these unkind vixens.

But in this thread you sound ever so slightly–if you’ll pardon the phrase–misogynistic. Not only that, you sound a little whacked out. Whores! Bitches! You sound like you’re ready to don a hood and burn witches at the stake. Is female sexuality really all that hard to handle?

Don’t get me wrong. I can understand why the Carmen Electra commercial pissed you off in your other thread: why should men be made to feel like their balls are substandard just b/c they’re not as rich as Rupert Murdoch, or muscular as Keanu, or whatever. But guess what? Commercials have been making women feel like shit about themselves in order to get them to buy stuff for decades.

I can also understand why you don’t appreciate an unasked for sensory additive foisted on you at the movies. But was the woman in question really a bitch? A “skanky ho”?
Could it be that maybe she’d seen a few too many commercials herself? And if women had a term that was the male equivalent for “castrating bitches”–(misogynistic pricks, perhaps?)–might not she be entitled to call you one of those?

[Cat_Whisperer]

She repeatedly sprayed perfume on herself during a movie?!? Is this a common practice anywhere? I can’t even imagine someone doing this in public.

[AwSnappity]

Ugh. Girls at my school repeatedly spray eau de toilette (and sometimes it really does smell like the toilet) all over themselves during class. I hate it. Also, they always rub lotion all over their arms and legs during class. And put on makeup, and do their hair…Geez. Wake up a whole 10 minutes earlier and do that at home!

[Miller]

Mandelstam: What with this being the internet and all, I obviously don’t know you or where you live. So do me a favor, go find a neighbor, roommate, significant other, or whatever, and have them slap you upside the head for me, OK?

Fenris is complaining about a single, particular women who is being rude in public. How the fuck is that misogynistic? Where did he say “all women are bitches?” Where were the blanket generalizations about the entire gender? Or is it just that anytime a guy for any reason says something negative about a woman, he’s automatically a woman hater?

And what the fuck is this about:

I can also understand why you don’t appreciate an unasked for sensory additive foisted on you at the movies. But was the woman in question really a bitch? A “skanky ho”? Could it be that maybe she’d seen a few too many commercials herself?

What, it’s not her fault she’s rude and insensitive, she’s a victim of the media? Get a fucking grip. Use both hands this time, moron.

[WolfpackJeep]

*Originally posted by Mandelstam *
**But was the woman in question really a bitch? A “skanky ho”? **

Speaking as a female, I believe the answer to both of these questions is “Yes.” That kind of behavior should be reserved for the restroom, not the movie theater.

Personally, I would have asked her if her perfume contained ambergris. If it did, I would have been glad to tell her where ambergris comes from…

[Fenris]

*Originally posted by Mandelstam *
**Hey, Fenris, I know this is the Pit, but what’s up with you and calling women bitches?

At least in your thread about castrating bitches you seem to be blaming advertisers for bombarding you with images of these unkind vixens.

But in this thread you sound ever so slightly–if you’ll pardon the phrase–misogynistic. Not only that, you sound a little whacked out. Whores! Bitches! You sound like you’re ready to don a hood and burn witches at the stake. Is female sexuality really all that hard to handle?
**

Snicker…

Um. No. I applaud female sexuality. I support female sexuality. You apparently haven’t seen the movie and your knee is jerking.

But before I get into that, in the other thread, I clearly stated that there is the “castrating bitch” stereotype that the advertisers are portraying. I also clearly stated that the vast majority of women don’t fit that stereotype. Perhaps you might try to read for comprehension, rather than looking at the naughty words.

Have you seen the movie? The correct term is prostitute, granted, but that didn’t connote the…ummm…lesser qualities of their wares. Most of the ladies of negotiable virtue on the screen (not Nichole Kidman’s character) were various degrees of skanky.

**

But guess what? Commercials have been making women feel like shit about themselves in order to get them to buy stuff for decades. **

I think the vast majority of women have enough class and intelligence that they would not pour on perfume during a movie in a small theater, multiple times. While advertising is an influence, women (and men) aren’t robots, programmed and controlled by the media.

**

I can also understand why you don’t appreciate an unasked for sensory additive foisted on you at the movies. But was the woman in question really a bitch? A “skanky ho”?
**

Yes to the first, the second was used because, in connection with the movie, it seemed a funny (and apt) comparison. If a man doused himself in after-shave during a movie, you would have gotten a similar rant, without the comparison to the movie).

**

Could it be that maybe she’d seen a few too many commercials herself? And if women had a term that was the male equivalent for “castrating bitches”–(misogynistic pricks, perhaps?)–might not she be entitled to call you one of those?**

Um, why would she? She didn’t even realize I was there. Or is this you calling me a “mysogynistic prick”, in which case, I’ll still decline the term. I was nothing but polite in the theater. So far in both threads, I’ve discussed one (1) real woman. The perfume-douser-lady. The rest of the discussion has been about negative female stereotypes in one thread, and tangentially, women of negotiable virtue in the other. I suppose that discussing the "picaninny " or “Mammy” stereotypes in early cartoons would also make me a rascist by your lights?

But, hey. Thanks for the input. :rolleyes:

On the other hand, I’d be interested in seeing if anyone else thinks that my saying “Portraying women as castrating bitches is bad” and “Repeatedly dousing yourself in perfume in a small, croweded theater is bitch-like behavior” is, in fact, misogyinistic.

Fenris

[Mandelstam]

Okay, so I’m in a movie theater seeing a movie about the, um, demimonde (and no, I haven’t yet seen Moulin Rouge and probably will wait for the video). A man sitting behind me starts dousing himself with Brut or Old Spice. And I think, “No way…”

Now I enter the Pit to roast this olfactory offender…

Jerk? Freak? Asshole? Geek?

Mebbe…

Let’s consider that there really isn’t an equivalent between “bitch” and terms used for guys. But, no, I don’t think that any man or any woman that calls any particular woman a bitch is a misogynist. Nor do I have any problems with using colorful language, and if I did I wouldn’t post in the BBQ Pit.

Also bear in mind that I was sympathetic to Fenris’s castrating bitches post. I was trying to point out an the irony of his using the word “bitch,” in the one case, to vilify the advertising stereotype and, in the other, to describe behavior that to me seems more pathetic, annoying and, perhaps, rude than it seems characteristic of a “bitch” or whore.

In both Pit threads I sympathized with the feeling; but in the second I questioned the language. And I couldn’t help noticing the link. Bottom line: when a guy starts calling women whores and bitches for behavior that seems a bit less reprehensible than that it gets me thinking…

1. Either this guy’s been listening to too much Top 40 radio

or

2. This guy sounds pretty angry and harsh to me.

Fenris, I don’t usually use words like “misogynistic” or “racist” to describe my feelings because they’re overused and often ill-used. Your two posts really struck me as ironic and, perhaps, angry. If the word misogynistic was unhelpful, that’s a shame. I will bear that it in mind in our future discourse.

I’m glad that you enjoy female sexuality.

Oh and Miller, it was Fenris who brought up the impact of media, in his other thread. And I don’t disagree with him on that point. It’s naive to pretend that commercials don’t have an impact on what people do: advertisers wouldn’t spend money on them if they didn’t. In fact, as someone has probably pointed out by now on that other thread, the more provoking the ad, the more it sometimes works.

Does that mean that we are the sum of the commercials that we watch? Does that mean that the woman in the movie theater had no responsiblity for her annoying act? Nope and nope.

It only said to me that Fenris might want to make a connection between why certain commercials pissed him off and how he was characterizing this woman in the theater. As EM Forster once said, “Only connect…”

[Tamerlane]

Tsk

Fenris: No, I don’t think your comments sound particularly misogynistic. You just come off as disgusted and frustrated. A female friend of mine was snarling about the “stupid bitch” behind her in a supermarket line just a few weeks ago. Said person was spritzing herself with perfume and got some in my friends hair, making her weeze for a half-hour with an asthma attack until she could get home and get in a shower. I don’t think she was being misogynistic, either. Just pissed .

But then again, I don’t think you’re out of line including Ayn Rand in a list of authors for the well-read sf fan, so maybe I’m just a cheerleader .

Mandelstam: If you want to make an argument that the word “bitch” is inappropriate to use under any circumstances because it dehumanizes, objectifies, and is particularly anti-women - Well, that’s one thing. I don’t necessarily agree ( I think obscenity serves a legitimate function in terms of self-expression and anger management ), but I would respect that intellectual position and I would be willing to concede that the word itself has it’s basis in vaguely misogynistic thought. But that doesn’t make everybody who uses it a misogynist.

• Tamerlane

[Tamerlane]

Mandelstam: Didn’t refresh before I posted . Given your clarification, it seems you both object to the word in general ( an understandable position ) and were concerned about Fenris’ use of the word for what seemed to you a less than egregious violation.

In relation to that second point - I didn’t get the same impression. It’s probably just a point of view. I despise strong perfumes and would regard continually spritzing yourself as the height of selfish, anti-social behavior. For me, there would almost be an undercurrent of passive-aggressive territorial hostility in that act. Probably that would be me, reading too much into it. But that’s how I would feel. So I would probably have used the word “bitch” as a descriptor as well . And I’m not generally in the habit of using that word.

• Tamerlane

[wring]

She was using:
"Eau de Ho"

remember to tip your server

[Fenris]

Gawddamnit Mandelstam, why’d you have to be reasonable? I’ve never had a pit thread and this looked like it could have shaped up into a good one!

*Originally posted by Mandelstam *
**Okay, so I’m in a movie theater seeing a movie about the, um, demimonde (and no, I haven’t yet seen Moulin Rouge and probably will wait for the video). A man sitting behind me starts dousing himself with Brut or Old Spice. And I think, “No way…”

Now I enter the Pit to roast this olfactory offender…

Jerk? Freak? Asshole? Geek?
**

How 'bout prick? (which is the closest I can think of to “bitch”.)

But what if the movie was about male prostitutes? If the cretin behind me doused himself in Polo (the most dreaded of stenches) every time the boy-toys were on the screen, I’d be perfectly comfortable with making a post about how the guy behind me was a sleazy giggolo. And calling him a prick

**

Also bear in mind that I was sympathetic to Fenris’s castrating bitches post. I was trying to point out an the irony of his using the word “bitch,” in the one case, to vilify the advertising stereotype and, in the other, to describe behavior that to me seems more pathetic, annoying and, perhaps, rude than it seems characteristic of a “bitch” or whore. **

“Bitch” because she greatly detracted from my enjoyment of the movie intentionally. I’m not talking esoteric manners rules like “It’s ok to eat asparagus with your fingers at formal dinners”, I’m talking about basic, bottom-feeder level politeness.

When I say “doused” I mean "doused, “Whore” because, frankly, wearing that much perfume is sleazy, and given the um…less than “high class” nature of the soiled doves in the film, it seemed a funny comparison. I would have made the same comment if she’d been in standing against the wall, spinning her rhinestone studded purse, with one foot against the wall in the “classic” pose asking “Hey big spender, wanna buy a girl a drink and have a good time?”, I’d say the same thing.

**

Bottom line: when a guy starts calling women whores and bitches for behavior that seems a bit less reprehensible than that it gets me thinking…**

I’ll stand by bitches, and I’ll say that in this case, “whore” was appropriate. If she’d been chatting on her cell-phone, I’d have stuck with “bitch” but not used “whore”.

**

Fenris, I don’t usually use words like “misogynistic” or “racist” to describe my feelings because they’re overused and often ill-used. Your two posts really struck me as ironic and, perhaps, angry. If the word misogynistic was unhelpful, that’s a shame. I will bear that it in mind in our future discourse.**

I’m comfortable with “mysogyinistic” or “racist” but they can (generally) only be applied to a pattern of behavior (or truly outrageous behaviour). I suspect that if you look back on my posts, you won’t see either.

Fenris

[conurepete]

Speaking as female, it seems to me that Fenris was quite reasonable and offense-specific when he used the word “bitch”. And it does not seem quite as bad hearing it from someone with his documented lupine loyalties. (see the wolf-ass thread) I’d post the link, but I am new here and still learning.

[Miller]

Mandelstam wrote:

Jerk? Freak? Asshole? Geek?

Mebbe…

Let’s consider that there really isn’t an equivalent between “bitch” and terms used for guys. But, no, I don’t think that any man or any woman that calls any particular woman a bitch is a misogynist. Nor do I have any problems with using colorful language, and if I did I wouldn’t post in the BBQ Pit.

Well, “jerk” or “asshole” both seem to apply pretty well. Or “dick.”

Also bear in mind that I was sympathetic to Fenris’s castrating bitches post. I was trying to point out an the irony of his using the word “bitch,” in the one case, to vilify the advertising stereotype and, in the other, to describe behavior that to me seems more pathetic, annoying and, perhaps, rude than it seems characteristic of a “bitch” or whore.

I’m sorry, what sort of behavior makes using “bitch” okay? And how exactly did you get the job of judging which is okay and which isn’t? “Bitch” seems an entirely proper epithet for the rude and annoying woman in question.

Fenris, I don’t usually use words like “misogynistic” or “racist” to describe my feelings because they’re overused and often ill-used. Your two posts really struck me as ironic and, perhaps, angry. If the word misogynistic was unhelpful, that’s a shame. I will bear that it in mind in our future discourse.

Here’s a free clue, because you obviously need as many as you can get: most people respond badly to being called racist.

Oh and Miller, it was Fenris who brought up the impact of media, in his other thread. And I don’t disagree with him on that point. It’s naive to pretend that commercials don’t have an impact on what people do: advertisers wouldn’t spend money on them if they didn’t. In fact, as someone has probably pointed out by now on that other thread, the more provoking the ad, the more it sometimes works.

That was the other thread. This is this thread. Try and stay on topic.

It only said to me that Fenris might want to make a connection between why certain commercials pissed him off and how he was characterizing this woman in the theater. As EM Forster once said, “Only connect…”

Hmmm. One is an annoying and stupid commercial, the other is an annoying and stupid movie patron. I think I can figure out the connection here without any enigmatic Forster quotes. You’re new to this whole “thinking” thing, aren’t you?