Offhand, I can’t think of anything that would cause me to lose respect for someone just for liking it. I firmly believe there is a place for somewhat hackish writing and action flicks with a side order of cheese. Some works I enjoy are not great works of art, but I usually understand what their flaws are. For example, I enjoyed The Da-Vinci Code as a page-turner. The Name of the Rose is a far superior book, but one which I have to be in the right mood to tackle.
What does raise my eyebrows is if someone only seems to like crud, or if they have a particularly dubious favorite. I’m not going to have a lot of respect for your aesthetic judgement if you tell me Top Gun or ** Independence Day** is the best film ever. (There are plenty of other films that would qualify here, but those are the bad movies I’ve actually heard people quote as favorites.) I’m a bit more understanding if someone likes hack books, an awful lot of people simply don’t read much or at all widely.
This. Well-said.
I try to avoid intellectual snobbery – I had enough of it when I was in the academic world.
However, when people like works with an intentional subtext promoting bigotry or torture, I know to keep away from them.
At some point I came to realize that a lot of what I enjoy as entertainment is pretty stupid. I don’t watch a lot of television, but some of the programs I watch on occasion include Criminal Minds, NCIS and most flavors of CSI all of which are pretty silly shows. I even know some people who love pro wrestling and I don’t think less of them.
Can you think of some examples please? Birth of a Nation is considered a significant film despite the overt racism. I can understand someone appreciating it’s role in the development of cinema, while I’d be appalled if they viewed it’s politics favourably. I haven’t seen the Saw films, but I have mixed views on the depiction of torture in films. I wonder if films that trivialise torture are in a sense worse than those that depict it more realistically.
Honestly, I lose all respect for any grown adult who can’t resist the urge to bash the Star Wars prequels. Folks. they’re movies for kids, written for, aimed at and marketed to kids!
Were they great? Nope. Were they as good as the original trilogy. Nope. But seriously, as an adult, who cares, they’re meant for kids!
Same goes for Twilight, Harry Potter, Narnia, LOTR, etc.. If you *really, really, need *to read them to be hip with the kids, don’t expect a cookie for picking out holes or inconsistencies in the plot or the discrepancies between the book and the film. It doesn’t make anyone believe you more intelligent, in fact, in most cases it’s likely the opposite. They’re meant for kids!
I don’t have any problem with anybody liking anything, even saying it’s their favorite thing ever. But it’s when they start pushing it on me that I get annoyed.
That is quite funny. Mediocre as his writing is, I’d argue it’s not his worst crime as a professional writer. This was brought home to me when reading The Lost Symbol, where he treats science with the same respect and intellectual rigour he’d previously shown to history and Christianity.
That’s really quite patronising. I read the Harry Potter books because I enjoyed them. Being 35, I don’t even know any kids of reading age to “be hip” with, my nephew and kids of friends are all under 5. The best children’s books and films can be enjoyed by children and adults alike. Why shouldn’t we have high expectations of a LotR adaptation for example?
I read a lot of stuff that’s written for kids. Media that is targeting kids doesn’t get a pass on quality. If anything, media for kids should be of HIGHER quality than media made for adults. This means that yes, gaping plot holes and inconsistencies are even worse in a kids’ book than they would be in a book that’s meant to be read by adults.
It’s like…giving kids Cheetos and Mountain Dew for their meals. Sure, the kids enjoy them, and they are exactly what the kids want…but what the kids NEED are nutrient dense foods, with the occasional soft drink and cheezy snack. If kids are raised on snacks and soft drinks, they won’t develop good eating habits, and their bodies won’t develop properly. Same goes for junk media.
Oh, you’re right, Alka Seltzer, it’s inappropriate to judge older works by resent-day standards. So I wouldn’t judge someone for liking Birth of a Nation as a film. I’d stay away from them if they approved of racism now.
I guess I have to rethink realistic violence in films, too. I had to walk out of ** Girl With the Dragon Tattoo** because it made me ill. However, I don’t think less of my brother because he liked the movie very much. I know him, and I know he doesn’t commit or promote violence. However, if someone liked it because he/she was turned on by the violence and I suspected they indulged in violent behavior, I’d keep away.
nitpick for Sparky812 - LOTR isn’t a children’s book and the movies aren’t children’s movies. IMHO, of course.
as for the OP - I have lots of friends who enjoy books and films that I find dull/badly made (twilight, dan brown, harry potter) but it only means I take their book / movie recommendations with a grain of salt. don’t think any less of the individual. Now if they like the Kardashians or torture porn that might be a different matter…
If it’s for entertanment purposes only, I try not to be judgemental. Lord knows there’s surely stuff I enjoy that other people consider trash.
But when people read the latest self-help woo, or watch Dr. Oz every day, take every word as the absolute gospel truth, and start preaching it around to everybody they meet, I definitey don’t think much of their intelligence or critical thinking skills at that point.
Sorry for the rant, but that is kind of my point. To follow your analogy, you can’t eat Count Chocula (whether or not you would feed them to your children is another issue), then complain about its method of production and the nutritional value of all its ingredients. At some point, you have to accept that it may be junk food aimed at children and dissecting it is pointless. Same goes for junk media.
This, and throw in The Hunger Games, as well. I’ve read the entire Left Behind series, and tried to read Twilight at the suggestion of my sister-in-law, who wants to be an English teacher. I throw The Hunger Games in there as well because of the fanaticism of its fans.
I agree with you about stuff like Dr. Oz and the other TV woo-meisters. I’ve seen Dr. Oz, and while he’d be the guy I’d most want to perform my heart transplant, he’s the last one I’d take other advice from. The doctors on TV don’t talk to me directly, but my own doctor does and I’d rather listen to someone who knows me than some random good-looking doctor on TV.
Are so. (Which leads me to the thought, is all pantomime junk media?)
Lynn uses an analogy to make the point that not all children’s media should be junk, then you say we shouldn’t complain about the stuff that is junk. :dubious: We aren’t picking apart the Robotica Chocobot hour here.
I’d have to find out why they like/read/watch them before I’d judge.
I’ve read most of Dan Brown’s stuff and know that it’s crap and a load of bollocks. I still enjoyed them in the same way I enjoy OTT crap movies and TV shows.
I’d read the Left Behind books just to see what kind of shit these people actually believe. If someone said they read them and actually got something intellectual out of them it would be different. Likewise if someone said that they had read The Da Vinci Code and actually thought they now had a idea of what happened after Jesus died and understood Mary Magdalene more I’d think a bit less of them.
Basically I’m saying with me it’s about why they are consuming their entertainment rather than what they are reading/watching.
