William Shakespeare
Nelson, Elizabeth I, Shakespeare, Darwin, Netwon, Captain Cook
Maybe sub in Victoria as a symbol of the UK at a time if one of the above is deemed inappropriate (inappropriate like say, me contributing to this thread!)
Netwon = Newton. :smack:
Were I a Newton, Shakepeare or Darwin I wouldn’t have made such a mistake.
Since no thread is complete without a Simpsons reference:
Barney: And I say, England’s greatest Prime Minister was Lord Palmerston!
Wade Boggs: Pitt the Elder!!
Barney: Lord Palmerston!!!
Wade Boggs: Pitt the Elder!!! [pokes Barney]
Barney: Okay, you asked for it, Boggs! [punches him out]
Moe: Yeah, that’s showing him, Barney! [scoffing] Pitt the Elder…
Barney: Lord Palmerston!!! [punches Moe]
That’s all we need: a 100ft likeness of the Rev Ian Paisley
Shakespeare, Darwin, Newton, would all get very few objections.
Alexander Fleming
Perhaps a literary woman-George Elliot, a Bronte, Jane Austen perhaps.
Charles Dickens
Florence Nightingale
Laurence Olivier
Nobody is ever going to agree completely, but this one is perhaps the best I’ve seen so far.
:dubious: Ahem, thank you…
But seriously speaking, I wouldn’t be too sure of many from Northern Ireland who would deserve a face on any Mt Rushmore of sorts. Don’t get me wrong, there are enough people of note from NI, engineers and artists along with our less honourable politicians. But no one Rushmore worthy I’m afraid, at least not that I can think of…
George Best?
Judging by his most recent (alleged) actions, perhaps not.
Alleged actions, yes - the case has been dropped
My understanding is that Roosevelt was picked for his role in establishing the U.S. National Park system. Which, you know, Mt. Rushmore is a part of, and stuff.
- Edward I
- Oliver Cromwell
- Pitt the Younger
- Winston Churchill
- Clement Attlee (the greatest Prime Minister of the 20th Century in my opinion)
- The Crazy Frog
Why Cromwell?
No, seriously, I’m asking. I don’t get why he was so fabulous, but then I’m Irish and that colours my views somewhat.
Things like Drogheda, and the “to hell, or to Connacht” comment make me feel he was not a nice man and shouldn’t be celebrated.
If a British Mt Rushmore did include Cromwell it would be a diplomatic nightmare with the ROI.
I was always tld that Roosevelt was just the man of his day, and a comparison was suggested that if the monument had been made in the late 1960s, JFK would have been on it.
Just curious why Churchill would be left of a list like that, from my completely inadequate knowledge of the history he seems like a no brainer.
I think we should have a very large statue of Margaret Thatcher. The bigger the better for an easier target. In the spirit of The Life of Brian I would even open a stall selling selling stones to those who would want to vent their anger.
In a way this is true, but Teddy did have some gravitas. The Spanish-American War was pretty fresh in peoples minds, and most importantly he was a personal fave of the sculptor.
Oh, and one more thing, part of the thinking at the time was that the monument would be towards the “first 150 years” of the nations history. To accomplish that, they needed someone with a bit of currency. If you take Teddy off you don’t have anyone else left to carry the banner for the last 50 years prior.
Personally I always thought Ben Franklin belonged up there. If they ever added to the monument, FDR and Franklin would be attractive additions.
I fully understand your confusion…
The history of that time generally gets taught in England something along these lines:
The whole Cromwell debate is one that comes up every now and again on here, and i certainly remember arguing with TwistofFate at least twice about him!
Without derailing the whole thread, Cromwell is an incredibly complex historical character who, even at the time, people either loved or despised.
He was a man of incredible strength of will and an absolute conviction towards doing what he felt was right for England, both politically and in the eyes of God, even at great cost to himself and his family life. These qualities, along with his strong religious beliefs would lead him to some world-changing achievements yet allow him to perpetrate some truly despicable acts.
I think part of the problem in trying to understand Cromwell is that his “positives,” his achievements, don’t necessarily appear to us today to be that remarkable.
It’s vital, however, to place him into the context of his time. Cromwell was a man “of the middling sort” – he wasn’t an aristocrat, he wasn’t an important man. He was a middle class farmer from East Anglia. The very idea that someone like that could rise to a position of such importance both militarily and politically was inconceivable. Hell, the idea of your 21st Century local small business owner becoming a leading General and ultimately Prime Minister is unlikely enough, now picture how outrageous that must have seemed in the 17th Century!
From a military perspective, not only was he an incredibly talented commander of men, but the very idea of the army as a meritocracy, whilst it had existed before and since, was unheard of in England. The idea that skill and ability came from breeding not ability to the minds of the time, Cromwell’s view that:
Was one that would not surface again until the late 19th Century.
Similarly, to those of us who have grown up with Parliamentary Democracy and a largely impotent Monarchy, its difficult to grasp just how major an event the overthrow of Charles I actually was. If for no other reason, Cromwell must be remembered for not only being one of the men who first argued that the King was no more a man than anyone else, but also for being one of the few men never to waver from, nor accept no comprise of, that belief.
The sense of anger and betrayal that he experienced on realizing that Parliament was completely self-obsessed and concerned more with their own pockets and power than with ruling England properly, was incredible. He didn’t take power because he wanted it (Indeed Parliament tried to make him King in 1657, but he turned them down) but because he honestly believed that no-one else could do the job. Arrogant, Authoritarian but (arguably) right.
Of course, you can sing the man’s praises as much as you want. But he was an outright bastard as well - the man effectively conquered Scotland and Ireland, and did not hold back whilst doing so. That said, the amount of propaganda and myth around his campaigns in Ireland distorts the actual history. It’s wrong to hold up Drogheda as a “crime” because by all trustworthy accounts it stands out as a perfectly standard siege/capture for that era (again, you must consider the man as a product of his time), and distracts from far greater acts for which he should be held culpable.
Arguing that Cromwell is in no way responsible for the Wexford massacre, other killings and the mass deportations to Barbados simply because such acts were carried out by commanders and governors beneath him is laughable. He appointed these men, he made no effort to stop them, and never effectively chastised them from doing so. This is the man who strongly fought for the right of Religious freedom in England (under Cromwell Jews were finally allowed to return to England) for everyone except Catholics and was responsible for the Act of Settlement. Anyone who says that his treatment of Catholics, particularly in Ireland, was anything other than abhorrent needs their head examined.
Of course, all the above doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of the man, yet is often everything (if that) that people know about him. His personal history always gets lost to the bigger picture. No one remembers Cromwell the bankrupt farmer, the intensely loyal friend (to those few people who new him well enough) and the genuine family man - he loved his plain ol’ wife and kids dearly, and was absolutely devastated by family deaths later in life. Nor do we remember his battles to stop large landowners from taking farms from Fen Farmers.
I guess I feel he’s important because just as we love to demonize our villains, we (often unconsciously) do the exact opposite with our heroes. We often caution against forgetting that Hitler was merely a man whilst at the same time elevating our own idols to hyperbolic heights, excusing their mistakes and ignoring their flaws until they become no more than Cardboard Heroes – caricatures of themselves from whom we can learn nothing, and in whose footsteps we can never hope to follow. With Cromwell it is impossible to do that. Cromwell deserves to be remembered as one of the most important and influential figures in our history not only because of his remarkable achievements, but also because of his crimes, because he teaches us both how to behave and how not to and, above all else, because he was merely “one of us”, and most definitely “only a man.”
Geez, that was eloquent. Let’s put up four Cromwells, Churchill, and Newton. 