This horse has been beatin before here
I know what you meant, so did everybody else, but that usage is offensive to a lot of people(who feel very strongly about it, I might add), and Jay and Silent Bob got into a world of shit over that themselves. Just don’t go there.
Happy in a cheesey stupid way, Fred Flintstone was. Stuff like that is soft-core to the kids who grew up with aeon flux, aids, school shootings and MTV. And since when does anyone dictate the way urban culture uses slang? We validate it by using it that way. Don’t like it? Tough. We talk the way we want and we rhyme the way we want. Words have they own meaning in the context of this culture.
Part of the fun of this whole hip-hop vibe is that it pisses so many people off. They think we hate women, they think we hate homosexuals, they think we hate police, they think we all do drugs. But hip-hop is really about love. Love of music, love of dancing, love of each other. On your average night at S.O.B.‘s (a popular hip-hop venue here in NYC) you’ve got black, yellow, red, white, gay and straight dancing together with no one sweatin’ no one.
I don’t hate anyone, really. But I love listenin’ to rappers bitch about what they hate on this wax. Cause it’s fun. Fun like the BBQ pit here on the SDMB.
You’ve gotta see past the words to the core of the whole thing or your just missin’ it.
DaLovin’ Dj
Um, no. The word “gay” was in the lyrics to the song. Do you really think it meant “happy in a cheesy, stupid way”? Of course it didn’t. It simply meant “happy.” These days, when most people hear the word “gay” they understand it to mean “homosexual.” So when you start using it to mean “lame,” it’s insulting. When it’s just as easy not to use the word as to use it, you have nobody to blame but yourself if gay people take offense.
:rolleyes:
Great. And when a gay person who hears you use it as an insult connects his fist with your mouth, just try to remember the context.
Getting your kicks from pissing people off is something most people consider equivalent to “being a jackoff.”
Yes, I’m sure my gay friends would really appreciate me seeing something stupid and calling it “gay.” It really validates them as people, you know?
dj, did you even read the last couple of posts that weren’t yours? See if you can wrap your mind around this:
You’re right when you say we should be able to see the deeper meaning behind words, and not rely so heavily upon the words themselves. However, in a written-word forum like this one, words are what we have to express ourselves, so those words should be chosen carefully to get our points across.
When you use a word like ‘gay’ to indicate you find something silly/stupid/pick your adjective, you run the risk of insulting those who ARE gay and don’t find their lifestyle silly/stupid/pick-your-adjective. And your defense of ‘well, THIS is what I mean when I say this word’ doesn’t hold water. Words have power. That is why so-called ‘obscene’ words exist in our culture - those words have power because in our society, we limit those words because some find them offensive.
When using the word ‘gay’, that is not in and of itself an offensive word IMHO, but when you twist its use to describe something you find offensive, that insults the people who that word really describes. Please find another word to express how you feel.
And as for rap - just like any other musical genre, there are good artists and poor artists. For my money, give me the good old-schoolers; A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Digable Planets, Run DMC… For my money, “Run’s House” by Run DMC is still the best rap tune out there. Folks like Nelly will never touch that.
What about all the happy, jovial people from whom the word “gay” was taken in the first place?
Oh, OK…
No, I’m not serious
-j
Yeah, so if I call someone “My N***a” (my “pal”, for those not up on their culturally-diverse greetings) in the general vicinity of a group of African-Americans, I should complain when I get my ass kicked? I should tell my attackers that my expression shouldn’t have been taken as an insult, even though I didn’t use it that way? Use your fucking head.
Context doesn’t mean much when the word itself is so volatile. Just because a formerly offensive word has somehow found its way to a different meaning through the ignorance of society, doesn’t mean that the original meaning goes away. You want to talk that way, fine, but you better make sure no one objects, or you might find your teeth handed to you.
Yeah! You go, boy! In fact, in salute to our freedom to use language any ding-dang way we please, I’m going to adopt a few new terms!
“Man, did you see that lame, cheesy guy? What a DJ!”
“Dude, is that the best insult you can come up with? You are SO hip-hop!”
“Do you have to be such a freakin’ rapper? Sheesh!”
Can you feel the love?
pldennison:
Your missin the point there fruity. What the writers of the song meant, and how it gets interpreted by people of my generation/culture are 2 differnent things.
Maybe most of the cats you hang out with, but not me. Me and my friends (including homosexuals) use it the same way I have up in this piece.
I could care less if anyone takes offense. The word means what it means when I say it. You don’t see that: your prob. And for the record, I didn’t start using it that way, I just picked up on the fact that people do, and now it’s part of my Vocab.
Again with this “most people” bullshit. We obviously hang in different circles. If I make a song, and it makes my friends laugh, but pisses you off, then: We’re gonna laugh at how stupid you are for getting pissed at a bunch of people just having fun. The point is, your a moron if you let shit like that piss you off. Who cares if a bunch of kids wanna jump aroud and swear and act like little g’s? It is FUN. And some cranky old whiney mutha fucka always gotta come along and start preachin’. Well fuck that. I got that urban shit up in my soul and I like the way it feels. My lingo’s my lingo, and that is hip-hop. no apologies, just a damn good time.
I aint tryin’ to validate no one. Or invalidate anybody for that matter. What I’m tryin’ to do is get my point across. Everyone knew exactly what I meant when I posted, but we gotta head into PC land. Fuck politically correct. this is the pit.
DaLovin’DJ
dj, reading this thread I’ve been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. But your inability to even understand what other folks are trying to say to you leads me to this conclusion.
You’re a putz. And worse than that, you’re a troll. You disguise it better than most, but a troll you are and a troll I name you.
Oh, and by the way…
And what a ‘vocab’ it is… Truly, your command of the language amazes me. I’m just waiting for the day when you’re pressed up against a brick wall in an alley somewhere, desperately trying to explain to the rather large, strong and pissed-off gentleman of the homosexual persuasion that you didn’t mean ‘gay’ in a BAD way… Good luck, junior.
Since when the hell does “your” generation get to decide the meanings of words? Damn, you kids have been spoon fed your own shit by Mtv since birth and now you’ve gone and gotten a taste for it! I don’t care where you’ve got urban soul up in, using the term gay as an insult is not new, your generation didn’t invent it. Since it’s deviated from it’s original definition of “merry” to mean “homosexual” it’s been used as an insult. So your slang is not new, it’s not soulful, it’s just infantile and obnoxious. Just think about it and maybe you’ll understand. Some day. Once you’ve really insulted someone you care about and feel like an ass. Maybe.
Hey, if the people of your generation/culture are idiots, it isn’t my fault. The writer of the song meant what he meant. “Interpret” it however you want–doesn’t change the meaning of the word in the fuckin’ song.
Yeah, and Richard Pryor used to use the word “nigger,” too. Then he got smart. I used to use the word “gay” to mean “stupid,” too – when I was in the second grade.
OK, Humpty Dumpty. But, see, people of my generation/culture interpret it differently. Whoops! See how that works?
You’re right. I meant “most intelligent people.” See, pissing people off just for the sake of doing it is sorta kinda immature, not to mention just plain dumb. You saw how long Tom Green managed to ride that rocket, right?
Thank heaven for small favors.
I hope you’re using the generic “you” here. I have a lot more things in life to be concerned about than to let music piss me off.
Of course, then they bitch and complain like little whiners when people don’t respect them. Gee, I wonder if the two are connected in some way? Could it be possible? Naaaah.
Oooh, you rebel, you.
Alright, alright, alright. It’s become obvious that dalovindipshit is either a troll or just plain ignorant. It is fruitless to argue with he who has his head up his ass. This thread is in danger of getting kicked to GD, like so many others that have debated this same question. Let us ignore dalovindickweed and his blatant stupidity. The OP was about rap, I believe:
Check out MC Hawking. Who says rap can’t be intellectual? Try “Entropy” for example.
Fuckin A! That is the funniest site I have seen in quite a while!
I think the etymology of “gay” meaning lame has absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality.
“Gay,” meaning frivolously or excessively happy has been in use for a 100 years and as a minor perjorative for almost as long. “Gay” meaning homosexual is a relatively recent and probably unconnected (as far as the perjorative usage.)
As Led Zeppelin says:
This isn’t the most difficult concept to understand.
If I call somebody a “black-hearted bastard,” an intelligent person knows it’s not a racial epithet.
Similarly when a twelve year old says “Pokemon is gay,” he doesn’t mean that Pikachu engages in same sex intercourse.
As dalovindj has pointed out, his usage presents no perceivable malice towards homosexuals.
Words like any tool don’t provide meaning beyond their usage, so giving this kind fellow a hard time about his colorful and creative and contextually appropriate use of language is being priggish at best.
dalovindj
I’m not sure what this “cool” quality you talk about is. Whatever, I seem to be completely out, having wasted whatever supply I had in my early teens. It seems like it has intriguing properties so perhaps you could let me know how I might get some.
Actually, I’m a little in awe at your use of language. I love the way your imagery and usage is completely off the wall, yet you manage to remain amazingly succinct and concise.
First off, all these threats of eventual violence at the hands of some homo-sexual who hears me use the word gay are just so much fantasy. I hope your having fun phantasizing about a homosexual who beats people up for talking.
This thread is about hip-hop. I am defending hip-hop against the implications of the OP. The culture of hip-hop has it’s own language and attitude. I’m using it. It’s not polite, and it’s not PC, and it doesn’t worry about hurting peoples feelings. Hip-Hop doesn’t give a fuck. And that doesn’t make it or the people who use it, stupid or bad.
So does the following make me a troll?
But I’m not a rapist, bigot, murderer, thief, or drug dealer (and I don’t advocate people who are). So am I a “jerk-off” for liking these songs? Hell no. Am I a bad person for using words in the context of the familiar language of my generation? No.
Hip-hop (and urban culture in general) is valid. It’s a way of looking at the world that’s grounded in how tough a place the world really is. You’ve got to have an attitude like a mutha fucka to make it out there these days. I understand some gay folks may not like the way I use the word. But some priests might not like my NWA album, should I throw it away? No. Should I not rent “Eddie Murphy: Raw” because it offends people? No. Same goes for the words. To those that I offend, get over it. If I was a person who thought homosexuals were stupid or lame I would say it. As it stands, I don’t judge people on their sexuality, color, or job. I judge them on their actions. I have met cool gay, black, yellow, white, and red people and I’ve met jerks of all the same flavors. One things got nothin’ to do with the other. This “don’t use the word gay” shit reminds me of the whole “Woman/Womyn” crap. Words can be used in all sorts of ways. Some of you act like there is no such thing as context. There is. That’s about all I’m going to explain about my language.
Bottom line. Hip-hop is dope. So am I. Hip-Hop offends people. So do I. Those who get offended just need to relax, drink a beer, and stop being so damn up-tight. Ohh, and crank up the bass. That’s how it’s supposes to be played.
DaLovin’Dj
DaLovin Dj
I’d like to see a cite for pejorative use of the word “gay,” unconnected to homosexuality, prior to, say, the early 20th century. None of the entries at dictionary.com or m-w.com show any such pejorative use, with the possible exception of a replacement for “licentious.”
I think I’ve seen Fielding use it that way. I’ll see what I can dig up. (If it takes a day or two, I haven’t forgotten.)
I don’t think the use of the term “gay” in this instance as an insult is directly linked to the user’s dismay for homosexualiy. But the reason it is an insult in the first place is because being gay (homosexual) is thought of negatively in much of society and since it’s got a negative connotation, it’s used as an insult for other reasons. I guess much like “dumb” means someone who can’t speak. When you call someone dumb, you’re not directly comparing someone to a person unable to speak, you’re telling them that they’re not very smart. But deep down, it’s an insult to those who can’t speak. Do you see what I mean? I’m not saying the dj is homophobic, he seems not to be. But mindlessly using that word as an insult keeps it’s connotation a negative one. Think before you speak.
Anyhoo, I really like De La Soul and Salt-n-Pepa, stuff with a lot of upbeat music in it. I can’t get into the hardcore rap because I can’t organize the rhythm for some reason. I guess I’d have to learn how it’s put together in order to understand it better. Plus I don’t like a lot of the anger in rap. It scares me a little.
Well, I have to agree with the OP. Real music probably would be offensive to rap fans, since they wouldn’t recognize it as such.
Maybe I should introduce my friend Brendan to you. Brendan is 6’2" and about 240 lbs.
Some of you may remember him from my thread about my roommate propositioning me.
Brendan happens to be gay. He doesn’t like it when people are mean about gay people or being gay. He doesn’t like the term to be misused.
I thoroughly enjoy thinking about Brendan meeting you.
I don’t listen to rap partially because of these examples and many more like them. I kind of take personal offense to the use of some words . . . go figure, I don’t like to hear about some btch-ass fag who deserved a beating, or some punk n***r who . . . you get my point? It’s pointless, it’s annoying, and there are ways to get across your point without being unintentionally provocative.
Eminem, by the way, uses the word “fag” to describe people who are weak or feminine. Any wonder so many people don’t like him?
“So am I a “jerk-off” for liking these songs? No.”
You checked off the wrong box, Sparky.