I care most that the instructor didn’t make a syllabus available, especially if this is an accelerated or intensive course.
I’m studying biology at university too, and while I’ve never come across an instructor who didn’t believe in Evolution, I can sort of see it happening. I feel for you WhyNot - you’re in a shitty situation, you need this class, and no amount of (justified) bitching and moaning to the administration is going to change that. If you feel you have the material reasonably down and own a textbook, do you really need to go to class? I’m not normally a big fan of poeple who never go to class, but you seem to have a good reason!
Maui Lion - I have absolutely every faith in science, and do not believe at all in creationism or the young earth theory. However, I respect to the ends of the Earth your right to put your faith in whatever you choose. I would hate to live in a society where we couldn’t have differing views. You say yourself that you’re not trying to force your beliefs on others, and I don’t go to churches and insist that everyone learn about natural selection either.
The problem is that as a college professor, you essentially are forcing your beliefs on other people. You hold power over these people (many of whom are young and can be impressionable) - they know that their grades depend on your approval, and so essentially must parrot back what you say, even if they don’t go so far as to believe it. I expect that one probably can believe with all their heart in creationism and still be a great instructor just without bringing up their beliefs. After all, I’m not so sure that ANY kind of religiously based beliefs have any place at all in a science classroom.
Maui Lion,
I am a Christian. I also understand enough biology to know that no biologist believes that we are descended from monkeys. Your post shows exactly why those who do not believe in science should not teach science. You disbelieve in a thing you do not even understand.
But, that is not the issue here. The person did not pay tuition for religious instruction. They paid to learn science. A particular science. And Creationism is not science.
In this particular application, Creationism is fraud.
Tris
I hear what you’re saying, and thanks for clearing it up for me and making me understand a little better at what the problem was. I’m glad I wasn’t piled on and assaulted for what I said, and I really, really hope I didn’t come across as trying to force my beliefs on anyone.
I agree that trying to coax his beliefs on the students in a learning environment where you’re just trying to learn Biology is a wrong thing, it’s not the place for that sort of thing at all, and one shouldn’t force their beliefs on anyone and shove it down their throat no matter where you are.
Now, on to, say, mitochondria… 
You need to get this clear. The next time he says something suggesting disbelief in evolutionary theory, you need to ask him straight out, in class, on the spot, so there will be other witnesses to the answer. “Do you accept evolutionary theory as correct?” or something like that.
If he says no, personally I would collect my books and walk out on the spot, and go straight to a dean, and either start working on getting the guy fired or get out of the class.
Maui Lion
Surprised there has not been a “pile on”? As Meyer6 and Triskadecamus have said, you can believe what you want but if you are going to teach a subject, you should be teaching it within the generally accepted principles of that subject.
Would you want to be in a Bible study class in which the Instructor states “The Earth was created in 6 days. Oh yeah, that’s a good one. Don’t you realize the complexity involved in creating an object that has the mass of 5.97x10[sup]24[/sup]kg?”
I don’t think you would.
Being a somewhat liberal message board, we do not have a tendency to attack people like “rabid wolves” to use your vernacular. Incidentally, I’ve had my rabies shot but I have been plagued with kennel cough the last few days. 
So are you saying you’re descended from a wolf, a doggie, or y. pestis? I’m confused.
Well, see, I didn’t understand exactly what the problem was, and…I didn’t know what’d happen if I brought up such a thing.
So yeah, pleasantly surprised though.
Saying it the way you did, too, helped me understand even better. I didn’t think of it that way…
And thank goodness lions can’t catch kennel cough! I think. 
Hey, no worries - reasonable debate is all the rage, and of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I think in a way you’re right too - as scientists (well, science students at least), I think we can start to see the world in a very black and white way and that’s not always right either.
For the record, I think what your talking about here:
is microevolution (essentially change within a species), as opposed to macroevolution (essentially the creation of new species). As far as I can tell few creationists deny microevolution, even if they don’t call it that. It is much more observable and I think make more ‘sense’ to most people.
You should check out the paranormal threads sometime. 
As for “Young Earth” theories…radiometric dating has pretty much established that the earth is 4.5 billion years old, give or take a century.
Physicist Richard Feynman used to start his course by suspending a bowling ball from the lecture hall ceiling on a rope, and then walking the ball over to a wall. He’d stand with his back against the wall, the back of his head pressing against the wall, hold the bowling ball pressed against his forehead, and let it go. The ball would rapidly swing out towards the far wall, then come roaring back at him. He wouldn’t budge. The ball would race toward his head but stop maybe an inch before impact.
He would then explain about the kinetic and gravitational potential energy, and tell everybody that he would teach him the things he would teach them because he really, really believed them.
It doesn’t sound like you have a very good opportunity.
Absolutely. I’m 33 years old, my husband makes shit pay as an adjunct professor (different university), and I’m sick of babysitting for spare change. I want to be a nurse. NOW. If there was any way at all to do it with on-the-job training, I’d be there. The reason I want to go to this particular school for nursing is that they’re the only ones I can find around here with a two year program that will get me my R.N. without a B.S. Even assuming I can apply this fall, and assuming I get in (about 1/3 of applicants get in, and it’s lottery based, not merit based), I won’t be able to start nursing classes until Fall of '09 - but that BIO credit has to be completed before I can apply. The clock is ticking, and no matter what, I’m not going to be starting my career until I’m 37 years old, pulling all-nighters in the NICU with bright young 20somethings. No, I don’t want to wait, even a year, especially with the lousy chances of getting into the nursing program. I need all the rolls of the dice I can get with that one.
It’s a 6 credit class that meets once a week. Your bio class probably met two or three days a week for two or three hours, say MWF or TR, right? This one does a whole week in one long Saturday session, 9 to 3:30 with two 15 minute breaks. It lets me go to school while still keeping that babysitting gig I can’t let go of yet.
Oh, man, if it was 20 years ago, I’d totally do that. Unfortunately, our current Nanny State culture has decided that adults can’t make their own decisions anymore, and so any student receiving financial aid must meet attendance goals, even if we can ace every exam and homework assignment. Seriously. The instructors are required to take attendance and submit attendance lists to the financial aid office. Now THAT’S Pit-worthy. :mad:
I was talking about this last night with my husband, who is also a college teacher. He asked why I didn’t do that. I said, “Because it’s inappropriate. It’s none of my business what he believes, I need not and should not know details about my professor’s personal life, and that includes his religion. Neither one of us should bring that stuff into the classroom. I’m there to learn biology, not theology.”
This morning I woke up and realized that that itself was an assumption. I think I *can *do it and make it about science education, not religion: I think next time he makes a comment like that, I’ll ask him to point me in the direction of another scientific theory that explains the current diversity of life. Not what he believes or why he believes it, but give him the (huge, huge) benefit of the doubt that his skepticism of evolution is scientifically based, and give him the opportunity to educate me about that.
Of course, I don’t expect there is such another scientific theory, but I’ll let him be the one to out himself, not stoop to his level of bringing inappropriate discussion into the classroom.
I would disagree. If you can muster sound evidence for an approach that differs significantly from what’s generally accepted, I see nothing wrong with teaching that - indeed, it would be wrong to suppress such teaching.
But any teaching should take into account the full body of evidence. “ID” and such seem to fail badly on this.
At some level there’s room for that, but an introductory level course isn’t that place. The purpose of such a class is to teach you what’s generally accepted, not anyone’s pet theory.
I would say that questions like that cease to be inappropriate once they touch on something that is part of the subject of the class. I mean, I wouldn’t think it inappropriate if a student in one of my literature classes asked me, “Do you accept the theory that these plays were written by an actor from Stratford-on-Avon by the name of William Shakespeare?” – I’d welcome the opportunity to explain why I believe that they were and what evidence supports my belief.
Granted, your situation is a bit different, since weird beliefs about Shakespeare authorship aren’t (as far as I know) correlated with any particular religion, but as long as you’re not asking directly about the professor’s religion, I think you would be well within the bounds of course-related material.
What if a student asked you if The Divine Comedy was, in your opinion, an accurate representation of the afterlife? Would you consider that appropriate discussion for the classroom?
What if, instead, he asked you if Dante Alighieri’s vision of the afterlife is supported by the theology of the Roman Catholic church? Very different question, isn’t it?
I’m looking for a question more like the second.
I don’t believe any question about the course subject is inappropriate; though it might be more or less relevant to the immediate discussion. To the first question, IMO an appropriate answer would be something like, “You are assuming the existence of an afterlife, which is beyond the scope of the current discussion. But if you’re asking whether it was an accurate representation of mainstream contemporaneous thinking about the afterlife, then…”
IMO, it is not at all unreasonable to ask a teacher whether they believe what they are teaching you is true or not, or highly suspect or whatever.
“Do you accept evolutionary theory as correct?” is a science question, not a religious question, and it’s an entirely fair thing to ask a biology teacher.
Funnily enough, I had a very similar discussion with a student a few years ago (she wanted to write a paper about why John Donne’s depiction of God is more accurate than John Milton’s; I hedged and suggested that perhaps she could write a paper arguing that it was more in line with the teachings of a particular religious denomination; she, I think, never did grasp the difference) :smack:
But the question “Do you accept evolutionary theory as correct?” IS more like the second question about Dante. It asks the professor to give his opinion on a matter that is well within his area of expertise and germane to the subject of the class. The problem with the first question in your example is that the hypothetical student is asking the professor about something that is both unknowable and only tangentially relevant, and I don’t see any such problem with asking the professor his views on evolutionary theory.
Okay, that’s kind of ridiculous. I’m a mature student too, and while I am a pretty firm believer in going to class (god, us mature students are keeners, aren’t we?), I think a person should be able to choose. I hate those twinky 20 year olds who never come to class and are drunk literally night and day all semester, then don’t understand why they’re failing, but if you’re fully willing to accept the consequences of not attending, I think it should really be your choice.