I like the United States. I like living here, and I’m glad I was born here. I like the fact that I can hop in my car if I feel like it, drive for three thousand miles and end up in a completely different place, but still be in the same country. I like most of the people in the United States (the ones I’ve met anyway). I like the ideals that the U.S. claims to stand for, most of the time. Many of them are ideals I aspire to myself.
My current distaste for the leadership of the United States does not translate to a dislike of the country itself. I can disagree (strongly) with the President and his cronies, but still like the country I live in. In fact, yet another thing I like about the U.S. is that very fact.
Is the United States “the best”? I don’t feel qualified to say… I haven’t been everywhere, and that’s really a personal taste thing anyway. However, I’m sure that there are wonderful things out there, in the great big world, that are pretty amazing, and I have yet to experience. The world is a big place, and the U.S. is a surprisingly small part of it, when you think about it.
Fair enough. It’s a guarantee that in 10 years GWB will not be our President. It’s also a guarantee that whoever the next President is, he will be disliked and opposed by a significant portion of the electorate; no President since George Washington has been elected unanimously. Similarly, I am not at all fond of the current leader of Canada or of France, but I would never say I hated either of those nations.
I see a lot on this board about how much some people despise various government officials; presumably these folks really liked the previous administration. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.) I’m pleased to see the more reasonable and logical statements that separate a culture, nation or group from whoever happens to be in a leadership position at the time.
I recall that even at the height of the Cold War, we school children (at least in my home town) were taught that it would be wrong to hate all the Russian people, but that their Communist and totalitarian government was not A Good Thing.
We debate a lot about whether our supports for the weakest are sufficient or not; many here agree with you and some, as evidenced in another current thread (which I can’t find right now) in which the OP alleges that a person on welfare needs no more than $20 cash at any time.
OK, kabbes, Here ya’ go. Mind you, I’m not alleging that any or all of these items are absent from anywhere else.
An incomplete list of what I like that’s American, in random order:
Baseball!
New England autumn leaves.
Maine lobster.
The California coast along Big Sur.
The Jersey shore at Island Beach and Seaside Heights.
The beaches of Hawaii.
Real South Carolina Barbeque.
Grits.
The Outer Banks.
Gathering shells along Sanibel Island in Florida.
The Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel.
The Grand Canyon.
Yellowstone National Park.
The Skyline Drive and Shenandoah National Park.
Fisherman’s Wharf in San Francisco.
The Museum of Natural History and Rose Planetarium in NYC.
The Metropolitan Opera (also NYC)
The Smithsonian Institution.
The shady streets of Charleston SC and Savannah GA.
Being able to enjoy the cuisines of 10 completely different countries within less than an hour’s drive from home.
The way whenever there’s a disaster, natural or otherwise, the first thing most Americans say is “What can I do to help?”
The way most Americans will simultaneously say they love their country and then list ten things that have to be done to make it better.
The way most Americans evaluate people not by who their parents are, but by what they accomplish.
Oh, and I do have a passport. My limited vacation time has kept me from visiting more than Europe, Australia, and the South Pacific, all of which have definite charms and admirable attributes. My husband is very proud of the fact that the he’s been to every continent except Antarctica. He was not born here, but he likes America best.
Now that’s a good list. Wouldn’t have it any other way.
(Of course, if I were to nitpick, I’d start with the fact that the US is well, well down on the world rankings per capita when it comes to giving aid following a disaster, but I feel petty for even pointing that out).
But in the interests of fairness, here’s a complementary list of what I love about the UK:
My point is not that my country is better or worse than yours, more that we all have things that we love - which is all to the good. It’s only when we try to claim that ours is best that we start to cause problems.
Take a wild guess at were Geldoff is from? Hint: It’s no Britain
How about the fact that it was within Britain that Live Aid and Band Aid came to be and was amazingly successful although I have heard that the Irish gave more per capita than any other nation
I would also disagree with those who relate patriotism to being proud of a random circumstance (e.g. being black or blonde or gay). Patriotism is the love of and devotion to one’s country, not Mr. Shaw’s definition. One’s country is the country in which you chose to live, not the one in which you were born.
Mmm … picture mile after mile of sand dunes, pounding waves, houses on stilts so they don’t wash away in the next hurricane, hot hot weather in the summertime, flowering cactus and wild grapes, deer slipping quietly through woods filled with Spanish moss, kids trying out their kites and gliders at the site of the Wright brothers’ first flight … I don’t think you’ve got anything in the UK that really compares, but obviously we don’t have anything remotely like Hadrian’s Wall.
Me, I’m just glad there’s so much variety in the world.
A group of curly-haired girls were walking around one day when the stars had aligned just so and the humidity was at exactly the right level so that they were all having excellent hair days. One curly-haired girl says to the other, “I love having curly hair.” The other replies, “Yes. Curly hair is the best, isn’t it?”
At this time a straight-haired girl happened to be passing by and
overhears the curly-haired girls’ conversation. So she interjects,
“Curly hair isn’t all that great. It tends to be frizzy and dry. You
girls need to get over yourselves.”
Now the girls live with curly hair. They know very well that it tends
to be dry and frizzy. They know this better than the straight-haired girl, and have spent many hours talking amongst themselves about how to fix this problem. But the straight-haired girl has them on the defensive. So instead of saying, “You’re right, of course. Curly hair does tend to be frizzy and dry” they respond with a list of all the great things curly hair has going for it and end with a list of all the problems with straight hair.
The curly-haired girls get a reputation for being conceited about their hair. Other people feel compelled to prove to them that their hair isn’t as great as they think it is, or that other kinds of hair are just as good.
Basically the same thing.
And as far as being proud of a trait that you were born with… my friend and I were both born with curly hair. She spends a lot of time working with hers and it always looks nice. I’m a wash and go girl myself, so I often do have frizzy and dry hair. So perhaps she has some right to feel proud of how good her hair looks.
The U.S. is a country of constant contradiction, from my POV:
NYC is arguably the Cultural Capital of the world: Artists, writers, actors, playwrights, filmmakers ASF, from all over the world gather there. On the other coast is Hollywood, which produce some astounding films and some astoundingly bad TV. Next to Hollywood is the porn capital of the world, while the same country is, arguably, the most religious country in ‘Western civilisation’. Swearwords and sex is a no-no on broadcast tv, but OK on cable.
I’ve never met people so hospitable as in the U.S. People are very gracious and generally quite polite (even though I get annoyed in stores). At the same time, it’s also the most violent of society in the ‘WC’.
There is absolutely marvelous nature. I’ve been to at least three National Parks and driven through quite a few states. But Strip Mall hell of suburbia is among the uglier sites in the world.
There are great restaurants from just about any culture, but people persist in going to Denny’s or Int’l Pancake House (BTW, most European countries, apart from France and Italy, will have a pletora of ethic cuisine too).
All in all, I give it a 7/10, with my own country getting a 6/10 and Spain gets 8/10.
So I like the U.S. but as some other posters have noted, there are things that rub me the wrong way. Fanatical patriotism is one of them. Geocentrism is another. And contrary to what I think is a myth, it’s not possible to be born in a log cabin and automatically become president. There are Horatio Alger types out there, but I think they are rare.
Gaspode, you are absolutely right that America is a land of contradictions. Here’s another one: Sex is not illegal, but often showing pictures of it is. Murder IS illegal, but showing it on t.v. of it is not. Go figure. (What did I just say about people loving their country and then in the same breath finding things that need improvement?)
About the Horatio Alger types: Ever hear of Bill Gates? Far as I know his parents were nothing special in the wealth and power department. Our former President (regardless of whether you think he is a great guy or a jerk) was from a broken home, and while he wasn’t born in a log cabin, his family was also nothing special in the way of wealth or power. One of our former Presidents was a haberdasher.
kabbes, I only spent a few weeks in the British Isles, but I would not dispute that there are many great and wonderful things there (Is that why they call it “Great” Britain?). I really could start another list of neat things we saw there, but that would be a hijack.
Americans are funny about criticism. If someone criticizes us as a group, we can get kind of prickly. But in our own company, you’ll hear left and right about corrupt politicians (in the OTHER party, of course), the welfare system (too much or not enough), taxes (too much from us, not enough from them), health care (too expensive, but don’t ask me for more tax money and for god’s sake don’t get into “socialized medicine”), those terrible drivers from that state across the river, how things are just going to heck now, not like in the good old days, on and on!
One more thing: I never did get to the Scottish lochs, but the pictures look lovely and I did see some excellent scenery in the parts of Scotland I did see. I hope to be able to go back and see more of that beautiful countryside. That said, I would seriously doubt there are beaches in the UK that compare to Hawaii. French Polynesia, yes, and certain Caribbean islands. I am a real beach fanatic.
MLS: Yeah, I know. And yes, in many ways 'tis ‘the Land of Opportunity’.
But I can get annoyed with sweeping statements that “anyone can make it” which implies that someone who doesn’t is a loser. Anyone can make it here too, but if we look at individuals, it’s really not the case. Some people are just not strong enough to break free, from what’s holding them down, and to some extent, I feel that the rethoric in the U.S. is that they only have themselves to blame. Strength and go-getter attitude is praised to a higher extent in the U.S., as compared to most of Europe. As with everything, there are two sides to that coin - both for Europe and for the U.S.
The consumerism can also annoy me at times, even though I’m materialistic like hell, myself.
I guess, what annoys people about the U.S. is that it’s ‘in yer face’ in many ways, and the mantra about ‘You don’t have to see American movies’, just don’t wash. I can’t go outside without seeing billboards for American products, be it movies, cars or shavers. America is the biggest and most important market in the world, so our domestic products get tailored to suit Americans. I wouldn’t want it the other way, with the U.S.S.R. winning the cold war, but none the less, America is not only in America, it’s everywhere, so it’s no surprise that people who haven’t been there have opnions. As well as Americans having opinions about places they haven’t been.
About this passports nonsense. The US is really, really big. In Europe, you can drive for a few hours and be in another country. On the other hand, it’s a four hour plane ride to get from NY to CA. Sweden is about the same size as California. Germany is smaller than Montana. Texas and Alaska are both bigger than nearly every country in Europe. There is more forest land in the state of Georgia than there is in all of Europe. It is big, and consequently, when a great deal of Americans want to travel, they go somewhere else in America. For Europeans, hopping on a train or getting in a car and going to another country for the day is a common activity. But Americans do not need passports to go to Canada or Mexico either, so generally people only acquire them if they’re planning on a trip to another continent.
My one pet peeve about incorrect foreign perceptions of the US is that it is homogenous. Of course, no country is homogenous, and the thing I love about America more than anything else is its amazing degree of heterogenousness. For a New Yorker, going to Yosemete for a week is one hell of a change. For a small town person from the midwest, Chicago is exhilerating. More languages are spoken in my apartment building on a regular basis than are probably spoken in an average city anywhere else in this country. That’s why I love New York so much.
I like being an American also. I don’t know if “proud” is the right word, I tend to think of pride as something I should feel about accomplishments, not random circumstance, but I do love America. I do not think it is superior to other countries, but I think its political structure, freedoms, economics and diversity are certainly superior to much of the world.
I think Americans like their flag a lot more than people in most other countries because it is pretty much the only symbolic thing we all have in common. We have significant populations of nearly every nationality, ethnicity, religion and political pursuation, but we’re all Americans. That’s nice.
Canada and Australia are really, really big countries as well, but both seem to produce a good many more international travelers (proportionate to the overall population) than the US. Pretty much everywhere I’ve traveled, including Alaska, I’ve met almost as many people from these countries as Americans. Despite much searching, I haven’t been able to find any statistics on the percentage of Canadians or Australians who hold passports, but I’d be willing to bet they are significantly higher than the percentage of Americans.
America has a lot of good points, but it’s not a particularly travel-friendly culture compared to other well-off Western countries, for reasons that go beyond geography. (The fact that most working Americans receive absurdly short paid vacations probably has a lot to do with it; so, I suspect, do several other factors, including the fact that most Americans perceive international travel as either more expensive or more dangerous than it really is.)
I am very wary of patriotism. When I hear patriotic speeches, I wonder who is going to get killed. Patriotism and violence are very strongly linked for me - the ones who vilify or beat or kill immigrants or Protestants or Catholics or Jews or gypsies are the most volubly patriotic of all.
Patriotism stifles dissent. Patriotic newspapers do not publish news critical of the government. Patriotic opinion columnists do not ask awkward questions.
The USA is a very powerful country. When patriotic sentiment starts to swell in a powerful country, people in other countries get uneasy. Patriotism encourages people to think “my country right or wrong”. Patriotism forces people to think that criticism of their country is motivated by hatred, or jealousy, or sour grapes, because “my country, while of course not perfect, is great/special/the best in the world”.
I have no hatred of the USA. I would happily live there, and have been there twice already this year (and may be making a third visit in September). I have no argument with love of country - I am very happy that anyone should love his or her country. But I can love my country (and I do) without a need to express some bizarre pride in being Irish, rather than say American or Belgian or Somali.
Well, Canada and Australia are certainly big, but most of both of them are full of nothing.
You raise a valid point, though. I am sure you’re right that fewer Americans travel internationally than Canadians or Australians, but my real point was that I think our wealth of cultural diversity makes up for that.
You think I am confused, but you should understand that this distinction is argued far more strongly in the USA than elsewhere. In my cynical view, the intention is to distinguish American nationalism (called patriotism) from “foreign” nationalism. But we have our patriots here too, and some of them have blood on their hands.
Yes, this is true. I could never be President of the United States. I could never be Governor of New Jersey, or mayor of the town I live in either. But the reason is I have no talent for politics, and I would not deal well with the stress of the job, as well as many other reasons.
What we treasure is that what does NOT keep me back is the fact that both of my parents were factory workers, or that I am female. There are lots of things I am unable to do because I lack the talent, or because I don’t find them worth the necessary effort, but the social status of my parents is not a barrier. Being black, or Catholic, or Jewish would not by itself prevent success either. This has not, of course, always been the case, and it’s certainly not universally applied now. I like that we have changed so many things like that over the past 200+ years, and that people continue to strive toward the ideal.
And yes, I know that this openness of opportunity and willingness to change is not limited to the U.S.A., it’s just one of the things I like about it.
