His mom knows he is an addict. She was happy to be dropping him off at a place she perceived as safe, although she would have taken him anywhere he wanted her to take him. Once again, he only had a few days clean, so he said, but that was an apparent lie once he arrived. I’m sure it was evident to his mom he had used - he didn’t sleep a wink and spent the night standing up outside on the deck. She doesn’t need me to beat him out to the car and tell on him - his appearance and manner says everything, but she is in far worse denial than anyone. He lives with his parents, so that is where he spends the majority of his time using. They know the tell-tale signs of drug use, but they didn’t step in. Perhaps it is because they spoke weed, although that is not even in the same league.
i have to say i find the suggestions of calling the cops and getting a lawyer a little over the top. one person drove to the OP’s house and either bought or sold something and drove off. this does not make a DEA raid of his house imminent or even remotely possible. and what exactly is he supposed to say to the cops? “yeah, hi, my friend is an addict and he did some smack in my house and also i suspect he bought/sold some more while he was there”? what do you think the cops can do with that? they can’t charge him with previous possession of a controlled substance.
another thing to consider is that it’s often the case for addicts to turn other people in to try to get the attention off themselves, which in turn puts attention on them. (OP, i know you’re not an addict, but the cops don’t know that) i see it every day. i work in a methadone clinic so dealing with drug addicts is a full time job for me.
maybe suggest he go to a methadone clinic? it’s not the answer for everyone but maybe it would help him.
Crime Scene? That’s about the saddest post (OP) that I’ve read in a long time. I appreciate your sense of friendship and all that that entails as well as your honesty in your description of loss that you’re feeling. I don’t quite understand the purpose of your post, but thank you nonetheless. It’s rare when I find someone that lives their lives on their own terms, as you seem to be doing, and I appreciate your definitions as well.
Stay safe bother.
I am sorry to hear about the situation with your friend.
This is my advice.
You need to decide what you are willing to do to help your friend. If you do not want to help, call his Mom and tell her what happened and explain that you no longer want him in your life. Then tell him the same.
If you are willing to help, you need to do a couple things. First, decide exactly what you are willing to do to help your friend. Write it down. Set your limits and do not go beyond those limits no matter what. Second, discuss this with your wife/family and get their consent and make sure everyone is on the same page. Also, call his Mom and tell her what is going on.
If you do go down this route, here are some suggestions for limits. No money, ever. If he says he is hungry and needs cash for food, buy it for him and watch him eat it. Do not allow him in your house, your car or to be with your family alone. Ever. You cannot trust him, so watch at all times. Set times that he is allowed to call or come over.
Next, the hard part.
Talk to your friend. Calm down first. Tell your friend that you care/love him and will not watch him kill himself with drugs or allow him to put you or your family in jeopardy. Tell him that you are willing to help and tell him exactly what you will do. Tell him that the rules you set down are non-negotiable. Tell him that to remain friends he must enter some sort of treatment. This could be in-paitent, out-paitent or a 12 step program. Tell him that he cannot be around you or your family if he is using and that you will call the police next time. Tell him that you cannot risk your family to his drug use.
Expect him to either get angry or go for pity. If he is violent, or has been in the past, I suggest talking to him with his family around. He will, most likely, try and bargin with you. Stay strong and stick with to your limits. If he refuses to take the steps you require, walk away. Tell him that it saddens you greatly but he is no longer welcome in your life until he gets clean and sober.
Things you can do to help if he decides to try and get sober. Locate either a treatment center or NA meeting and help him get in. You will probably want help from his mother for this as well. If he goes to NA, rides to meetings can be a great help. Also, if he decides to try NA, he may not want to go alone the first time. NA has meetings where non-addicts are welcomed. Take him, get him some coffee and have a seat. You won’t have to do anything other than say “Hi, I am Crime Scene and I am a visitor”.
Spend time between meetings with him. When quiting drugs or drinking, spare time is a bad thing. Additcts and alcoholics spend their spare time getting wasted and once that option is gone, spare time hurts.
If he decides to get clean, expect some oddness for a while. It takes a while to get all the drugs out of his system and to start thinking clearly. Additionally, he will experience feelings that he has been burying for a long time. When they come back up, it tends to be overwhelming. And a bit crazy. Mood swings are normal. He will probably be all over the place for a while.
I have had this conversation with a good friend recently. My friends brother has a problem. When we first discussed his brothers situation I told him what to expect, the lying, scheming, etc. I told him the same thing I am telling you. He didn’t listen at first. About a month ago he came to me and said “Slee, you nailed it. Everything you predicted happened.” So I told him once again what I just told you. The bummer is that my friend won’t help his brother. He doesn’t want to be mean and, therefore, is helping his brother die a slow death. Kindness is a good thing, except when your desire to be kind hurts the person you are trying to help.
Anyway, I hope this helps. If you want, feel free to PM me.
Slee
Recovering alcoholic, sober 9 years and 2 months.
I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. Al-Anon is separate from Alcoholics Anonymous. Al-Anon is for people who have friends and family members who are substance abusers. I wasn’t raising the suggestion as an accusation toward you or a suggestion that you’d done anything wrong, and I wasn’t raising it for your friend’s benefit.
Suggesting Al-Anon (or some group like it) was just meant as a way to help you feel better. You’re getting chewed up inside with anger, worry, and recriminations because of other people’s addictions. All of us who have addicted loved ones have been in a similar place, sometimes for a long time. It can help to hear from other people who have gone through these sorts of problems; sometimes it can suggest tools and tips, and sometimes it’s enough just to know that you’re not alone or unique in having to worry about and deal with an addict.
The question is why you let it happen 2 more times after you were sure of it. The first time you should have confronted him and said no more deals so in effect you did allow it two more times which you admitted in the OP.
But your house is not safe. You knew he was using in your bathroom and did nothing to stop it. You say it was evident to his mom that he was using but turn right around and say she’s in denial. And yes she does need you to rat him out. She nneds to know the truth about him (shooting up heroin) and you (that you didn’t stop him).
You seriously need to look at yourself in the mirror (and how you’ve contradicted yourself in your own story) and ask why you’re enabling him. The first ime he sold drugs in your driveway, why didn’t you set the ground rules of no more? You thought he was sniffing heroin in your bathroom. Why would you allow that? Look, I don’t believe that 12 step programs are a magic cult that helps everybody (I do think they’re a cult) BUT I think in your case you need to go to a couple of Al-Anon meetings so you realize that your behaviors are not doing your friend any good and that in a month you’ll be back doing the exact same thing.
I don’t think you can find better advice than what sleestak has said. You can help your friend, but it has to be with boundaries set firmly in place; someone intent on flushing their own life down the toilet often ends up taking other people down with them.
I’m wondering how the problems this friend has brought into your life, your home, compare with the situation of the panty-sniffing friend?
I was going to ask something similar.. OP, you’ve started three threads (at least) that have one thing in common: a striking naiveté when it comes to personal interactions/relationships. I’m not saying that’s a character defect, or even something that you need to fix, but it is something that you should have some awareness of. This is a pattern in your life, and if you continue the pattern it may come to a head in ways that are not beneficial to you or your wife.
The suggestions of Al-Anon or other support group are not far off base here; there is nothing wrong with having awareness of why you behave the way you do, and why you find yourself in.. let’s just say very odd social situations. That doesn’t mean you have to kick these people out of your life, or make any drastic changes; just gain a bit of knowledge that may serve you well in the future- if nothing else, it can assist you with forming solid boundaries.
This is absolutely a problem in my life. There is no way I can explain the extent of it in any post or even in person. My wife says my biggest problem is that I’m friends with everybody. I wish that I could explain how much grief this has caused
in my life. I have been robbed, burglaraized, taken advantage of and god knows what else. The problem is that I keep forgiving the same people over and over when they come to with sob stories and that they are trying etc. I always give them the benefit of the doubt and try to help.
Slowly, I’ve been able to cut the rope with a lot of these people, but there are still a few that I just can’t seem to shake. The fact is, when it comes to people I’ve known my whole life, I’m spineless. I don’t mind being judged on those terms because it is absolutely true. It oftentimes takes me quite awhile before I realize that my friendship with someone is in no way reciporcal. I appreciate the last few posts.
On the topic of the panty sniffer: Once again, long time friend. He is getting married next month and his bachelor party is this weekend. He is in the depths of alcoholism, but hey, a marriage is a once in a lifetime event, or at least supposed to be, right? So, I guess he’s just going to party on until his pancreas gives out…
He was on methadone for quite sometime before he went to prison. He claims that methadone clinics just get you ‘more strung out.’ I doubt this is true, but it’s definitely the song he is singing.
This. I spoke with my wife tonight for quite some time over dinner about the situation. It was quite a topic to be discussing on our anniversary, but I guess it needed to be addressed. We just agreed that he is to not be here unless he is 100% not using. He has never been violent in his entire life and has been in very few fights. I’m assuming that is also the reason he is such a piss poor drug dealer, aside from being a heroin addict, is that deep down he really is a nice guy.
He is currently taking Suboxone, non-prescribed of course. I spoke with him after work this evening very briefly, but he claims he is trying. I just got off the phone with a mutual friend of ours who said that they saw him in his current hometown waiting in a parking lot. He wouldn’t say what he was doing so I’m assuming he is using although he is claiming he’s quitting. More bullshit, the usual. He absolutely won’t get help of any kind. He claims he had ‘2 years of help in prison.’ So, there is his take on treatment.
Based on his history and yours, you can never know if this is true. I don’t see any way you can allow him under your roof. Hard to accept, but sometimes you need to make sure others can’t take advantage of you. This guy used up his last chance.
Someone once described codependency to me like this:
The addict is addicted to the substance; the codependent is addicted to the addict.
Then he went on to explain how a codependent may not like the behavior but gets fixated on how to change the addict’s behavior, to make him better, to soothe his pain, to prevent him and others from hurting him. And the codependent will persist in defending his actions and not give it up even though it is hurting him nearly as much as the addict’s behavior hurts the addict.
Maybe it’s time to put yourself and your family first instead of worrying about the latest problem your addict has presented you with.
You’ve been conditioned for a long time by addicts to react to them in this self-destructive way. Try asking yourself if you are able to let him go to suffer his consequences. You don’t have to tell on him or call for help or anything else. In fact, from what you describe I doubt anything you do will make a difference.
The sad and sorry truth is that most addicts don’t quit until they have used up all of their sympathizers. And many more never quit at all. In spite of your good intentions you may be making it easier for him to use than to quit.
Get some help in understanding what you are dealing with and doing to yourself. Alanon is free.
I’m truly sorry. And I do understand how confusing and painful it all is.
Wow. That definition of codependency gives me the chills…
What the f…
Thank you.
Telemark, I don’t want to get into an argument with you, but are you saying that if he is clean that you still would not allow him into your house? That by doing what he has done that he should no longer be considered a friend? I’m just trying to be clear on what your suggesting because it seems as if you would just completely call it quits, even if you had a long history with the person that was mostly good up until the last few years.
Crime Scene, you have been an enabler in the past, and to some extent, you still are one. That is why many of us have suggested you attend Al-anon. Even if your friend gets “clean”, he is still going to be an addict. You will not be doing him any favors by letting him back into your house.
Crime Scene, it’s like this. Your friend is an addict. And addicts LIE. Even if he’s not using heroin, if he’s using something else, then he is using. You’re a nice guy, a loyal friend, and you’re trying to help him. But you’re not helping him get clean, you’re protecting him from the consequences of his actions. And he’s taking advantage of you, your friendship, your kindness, and your family. Addicts are good at this. Now, he’s put YOU in a situation where if you do what you should do to protect yourself and protect your family, you think you’ll be the bad guy. And it’s never the addict’s fault. Ever. Just ask one.
He’s made his choice. Heroin is more important to him then you. Sure, he’s still willing to use you. What’s more important to you, him or your family? Yeah, find an Al-Anon meeting and talk it out with real people, not words on a computer, who are in the same place you are or were there.
I wish you well.
I’m glad, Crime Scene, that my post was well received by you. It sounds hard and seems totally contrary to everything we’ve been raised to believe about how to treat people we care about.
The same person who told me about codependency also told me this:
“Pain is (God’s) greatest gift to the addict.” Nobody wants to diet until they can’t zip their pants. No one wants to quit using until it hurts more to use than the pleasure/feeling of normalcy they get from using. So don’t save an addict from the pain he creates for himself."
As far as telling others about his problem here’s how I have handled it with addicts in my life. I tell them, “I’m not going to talk behind your back but if anyone ever comes and asks me questions I will be telling them the truth. So don’t count on me to keep your secrets.” That works for me, keeps me honest and not worried about actually causing additional pain to family members. It’s all on him.
Good luck. Hope to hear more from you in time.
I’m saying that based on both your histories, you can ***never *** know if he really is clean. Perhaps after 10 years of him living a virtuous life you could trust him again but that is a long way off. You’re too close to the situation to see it objectively and as such you need to remove yourself. The only way to do that is to not allow him under your roof. Not now, not later. You simply aren’t objective enough to evaluate this guy.
None of this says you shouldn’t be his friend or try to help him. But you should take steps to ensure you’re not being taken advantage of and make sure you’re not enabling him.