I am a poster child for the phrase “sensitive male”, but I would still f*ck at least half the women I see every day if someone waived a magic wand and removed all the taboos against it. For most of the women I see, it’s nothing personal (and most women would see that as precisely the problem). It’s not “objectification” any more than I objectify myself every time I whack off.
I become real friends with women, but that takes time. I do my initial scan of a woman within seconds, then refine the mental disrobing over time. Not every female friend I have I want to f*ck, but I’ve decided whether or not I wanted to long before I became her friend.
Right off the top of my head, I can think of four straight male friends of mine who—if they are even the slightest bit attracted to me—do an ace job of covering it up. Two of the guys, I rather wish WERE attracted to me . . . Not that I’d do anything about it, but a girl still likes to be asked.
A friend is a friend.
I’ve decided, instead of wondering who is having unclean thoughts about me, to remember what a good and dear friend this man (these men?) has been to me for years.
Who am I to tell them what should go on in their private thoughts? And instead of being offended by drunken confessions of secret love and undercover lust, or blowing them off as alcoholic nonsense, I will take them as compliments.
Is love selfish? It can be. Look at my overreaction to my male friends confessions of sexual feelings towards their female friends. It was selfish of me to want friendship on my terms only. Could I wish my husband happiness if he left me for another woman? If I was able to get over my own bruised and battered ego and if I could overlook his breaking the promises he made to me on our wedding day --I think that I could wish him happiness.
Of course, it would really depend on if I was happy. How could I wish my husband happiness if his happiness costs me mine?
Eve, my guess (knowing nothing about your male friends) is that they have ALL looked you over at least once. It had nothing to do with their feelings for you (and that seems to be a difference between men and women).
It would also not surprise me at all that at least one of them has BOTH sexual and personal feelings towards you, but is behaving himself, being a gentleman. If YOU were to tell him, in light-hearted fashion, you found him attractive and wished you could have something with him, he would probably (a) be shocked that a woman would do such a thing, and (b) be your devoted love slave.
If all taboos were lifted and emotions were not a factor, yeah, I would probably have sex with every one of male friend. Not that I am sexually attracted to all of them, but simply for scientific study. Besides, they are all great guys, otherwise they wouldn’t be my friends.
I appreciate what some of you men are saying, but I wonder if there are a few of you who aren’t being 100 percent truthful with yourselves. If neither you nor your female friend were attached to other people, assured of no awkward post-sex experience, knew it was a one time - do and forget moment, and had the option of turning off the lights, you really wouldn’t go for it?
Damn, I guess I just know a lot of horny guys. I don’t know of even one who wouldn’t dive right in.
For me its easier to become friends that I am attracted to because in the opening stage of friendship i am flirting more with them, not really trying to do them, but just because when i see a hot girl I try to flirt then we become friends, its always been a curse. Just friends. Maybe I’m shallow, but put me in a room full of women who all have great personalities and great senses of humor, and i will seek out the best looking of them to talk to.
So I have many female friends who i would screw in a heartbeat in the situation Diane described. Sex with a person you not only are attracted to but genuinely enjoy being with? Why would you refuse it?
Now the only question is how to bring up this thread at my next drunken bash without making myself look so very obvious…
OpalCat
"if you have ulterior motives you aren’t really friends.
Bull puckey. You can be friends with someone and still want to ‘do’ them. You can be friends and actually ‘do’ them, too."
Again, OpalCat is a woman and she has proven she doesn’t understand. I said MEN cannot be friends with women they find attractive. You cannot prove me wrong by saying your female interpretation of a friendship involved attraction and also friendship. For men there are nobodies, co-workers, friends, fuck buddies, girlfriends, and wives…that is all. If you have sex with a man you are now elevated to ‘fuck-buddy’ status and it’s not the same as friendship.
My two closest friends are women who I find rather attractive.
I haven’t slept with either of them, and wouldn’t, though the thought is very interesting. I like their friendship, and don’t want to risk screwing it up. This, though, doesn’t change the fact that you’re wrong about the ‘cannot be friends with women they find attractive’ thing. I don’t thinkI could remain just friends with someone I’ve slept with. A very, very different situation.
And may I add, please don’t claim to speak for all men again. I try not to, and it always irks me when someone else does.
I imagine most guys, in the right circumstances, would do their female friends.
But guys can also build up a filter to that urge, as the friendship becomes deeper, or the reality of how impractical (or potentially life-ruining) a romp in the hay with your pal could be.
Remember that “Seinfeld” episode, where I think Elaine was doing some dirty-talk on a tape or on the phone or something, as a joke? All of sudden, George, Jerry and Kramer started looking at her differently, acting really weird and attracted to her.
I had a similar situation happen with me involving one of my closest female friends. I met her when I first came to work at my last job - she was already an employee there. I found her attractive, but that got pushed to the back-burner as our friendship developed. It got to the point where I didn’t even think about her in “that way.”
Then, while attending her wedding, I saw her in a very flattering bridal gown, and my chin about hit the floor. It was like a dawning realization - “Holy Cow, she’s a girl! And she’s hot!”
Weirded me out for a day or two, but eventually, the filters kicked back in.
I’m gonna agree with Tengu up there. There are guys that make friends just in order to get some action with the girl later on, I certainly don’t, but they exist.
(and the whole “you’re just friends to have sex with her” line is irritating for several reasons, 1) it’s not true in many cases, and 2) it’s really hard to argue with. (mostly because the basic response “no, you’re wrong” is generally met with a wink and an “I get it…”)(this can be frustrating…))
The only question I have for people who actually believe the whole guys can’t be friends with people they might be attracted to camp are what about gay guys? Does this mean that gay guys can’t be friends with other guys since they will just end up trying to get with them? Care to give us you’re expert opinion here Esprix?
First of all… this was discussed in MPSIMS not long ago… http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=23116 I went back and forth with a couple of people over this topic. Check out the thread for my story because it will take too long to explain it again.
I will say this again though… I still think it’s possible for a man and a woman to be friends without being sexually/romantically attracted to each other. Yes, there are some men who are incapable of having a platonic relationship with a woman and that’s fine too. I just don’t think it’s right to assume that a man and a woman are, as slythe so eloquently put it, doing the tube steak boogy just because they say they’re friends. Terry is the only guy that I’ve been friends with that I haven’t had sex with. It’s rare, but it does happen!
Second of all. . . this is being discussed in IMHO at this very minute.
I’m sorry if the threads overlap in theme, but I was asking a personal question here. Although I’m sure it was not Rachelle’s intent to make the originator of this thread look like she did not know what she was doing just because she did not check a previous thread in another forum for a similar subject --right Rachelle.
Well, I’ve gone on record (above) as checking out every female I see, and wanting to jump at least half of them. BUT…
I married a plain-looking woman with not much in the way of a libido, based on the strength of her personality. Even though most of her friends and neighborhood buddies is sizzling hot, and I regularly have mental orgies with them, I’m always a perfect gentleman. Even though I’ve had attractive co-workers make passes at me while we were on business trips, I’ve behaved myself.
If we lived in an alternate universe where people had casual sex because someone asked for it politely, and it was done without emotional consequences, then I’d be wearing myself out. 5 or 6 times a day would be about my speed (and I’m 43 y.o.). But we don’t live in that universe, my wife would be devastated if I did one of her gorgeous friends, and she would think I didn’t love her if she knew every time I checked another woman out.
I’ve gotten to be good friends with gorgeous women. I’m also good friends with a another woman who has a face that would stop a train and a body that’s not much better.
ALL men check out ALL women. Just because a man checks out a woman other than his wife/GF doesn’t mean that he doesn’t love her or is bored. It just means that more than a few hours has passed since he last made love, he’s biologically ready to go at it again, and his penis doesn’t care who with.
Remember the old saying, “when the little head gets hard, the big head gets soft”? Well, think of men as having two brains. Sometimes the two heads think alike, sometimes not. The big head cares about love, commitment, ethics and honor (or should). The little head just cares about when he’s going to get some action again.
Obviously, I disagree, and before anyone jumps up and points out that I’m gay, and obviously there are some differences between same-sex and opposite-sex relationships and friendships, I will say that some of my gay male friends (and even myself to a degree) have almost the same list, including fuck buddies, friends, boyfriends and husbands (although sometimes the lines blur a little more in the gay community than in the straight, but that’s just my own personal observations). However, I maintain that you most assuredly can be friends with someone you’re sleeping with (or dated, for that matter) without having to “change their status” to boyfriend or fuck buddy - I refer to them as “friends with special privileges,” and I have 2 or 3 of them myself. First and foremost, we are friends, and sometimes we have sex. No big deal. I’m also friends with a rather high percentage of my ex-boyfriends (but only one has privileges ;)).
Am I a pig? Probably. But as far as the rest of the straight malepopulation, perhaps you’re just comparatively wired stereotypically. It sounds like you’re the one with issues, not every man on the planet.
To answer the OP, I would say more than half of my male friends I am not in any way interested in. Of those that are left, I would consider sleeping with them, knowing that I am of a very liberal mindset and could handle it once the fun was done.
Sorry it’s taken me so long to post here, but I saw my name and couldn’t resist.
Though I tend to think Chris Rock was on target, there’s a vast difference between finding someone sexually attractive and actually wanting to be with that person spiritually and carve out an emotional bond. I give most men credit for knowing the difference. Billy Crystal was only half right: a man can be friends with a woman he finds attractive. He just can’t be friends with a woman who he finds attractive and also for whom he has unrequited feelings.
In case you were wondering:
I have many attractive male and female friends with whom I’ve never done the horizontal mambo.
For a few of them, if there were no conventional social taboos or if I were unattached, I’d drop my panties in a hearbeat if they said 'how ‘bout it, toots?’
I have male and female friends who I’ve already had sex with, and believe it or not, strong friendships endure heavy petting and the aforementioned mambo. In some cases they are enhanced. My ex-girlfriend is now and still my best friend, though I haven’t seen her naked in years.
I find some of my friends sexually attractive who aren’t “good-looking” in the classic sense.
For some reason this only applies to men I meet, but I can meet a person and find them attractive. Upon becoming closer and closer friends, they become less sexually attractive to me, and more and more like eunuchs.
Disclaimers: I’m in a happy long-term monogamous relationship with a man. In case he reads this, I’d never act on any of this stuff. Period.
Leave it to the gay guy to object to my ‘black or white’ argument. Yeah, I’ll admit I’m taking a suicidal leap of faith when I mention ‘ALL’ in any sentence on this board, but you have to use universal quantifiers otherwise it’s boring. I say ‘yes’, you say ‘no’ and eventually we come out with ‘maybe’.
Still…friends with special privileges is what I would call a fuck-buddy. A buddy is the same as a friend and when you say ‘special privileges’ it has sexual overtones…hence the fuck part. Or do you disagree?
The main problem I am having with this board is the distinction no one has seemed to make. Is the question:
A) Are men in an active attempt to have sex with all females they have made friends with?
or
B) If all social constraints and consequences were removed, and if all parties were willing, would most men have sex with any and all of their female friends?
When a guy says “I’d fuck her” he (or atleast I) usually means “B” He knows he’s never going to, and has no interest in trying to, but based on purely personality and/or physical characteristics, and ignoring all other factors, he could enjoy having intercourse with said female. Women of course assume men mean “A.”
So my answer to this question, as a happily maried male, would be both yes and no. I have no interest in having sex right now or ever again with anyone but my wife, and could never imagine doing so, but I believe that I could find sex enjoyable with any of my female friends.
My dearest friend is male. We are both 24 and have been friends for 12 years. He has wanted to have sex with me all along, I believe, and has tried several times to convince me that it would do no harm to our friendship. I have always deflected him from pursuing this as gently as I could. Which is not to say that we have never kissed, or fooled around, but we have never had sex. We are still the best of friends. There has been at least some level of sexual tension in the relationship almost since it’s inception. In spite of my knowing that he most likely would have let the friendship lapse a couple times in the past if not for his unrequited desires, I also know without a doubt that he truly cares for me. And I for him. Adult relationships are complex.
I think the fact that we have allowed plenty of space in the friendship (we go our separate ways and then come back to each other, sometimes after several months apart), and the fact that he lives quite a distance away and has for the last 4 years has probably contributed to the longevity of the friendship, because the constant underlying attraction would have been a lot harder to deal with without that. We also scrupulously avoid any behavior that might be interpreted as being “jealous.” I am engaged, right now, to someone else, and he is nothing but supportive of this relationship, because he believes that I am happy. Likewise I have been and continue to be supportive of any relationship that he may have.
All this aside, I know that if I said I wanted him to, he would bone my brains out in a minute.
I disagree, but it’s just semantics. “Fuck buddy” to me means someone you get together with solely to have sex. “Friend with special privileges” means someone you are actually friends with outside of the sexual relationship, i.e., you do other things, or you don’t have sex every time you see one another. And “friends” are just friends. “Boyfriend” is more than “friend with special privileges” because there are deeper romantic emotions involved for each other.
jayron 32 wrote:
Uh, no.
Uh, well, not with my female friends, but if I could with my male friends, I would say I’d do it with maybe half of them - the other half I do not find attractive in any way. Of course, there are times when the gay community has no “social constraints and consequences,” so I’d bet I’m more apt to sleep with my gay male friends than a straight guy would with his straight female friends…
Trick. Sleep with them once, possibly twice. Don’t necessarily know their last name. Synonyms: lay, fuck.
Fuck buddy. Like a trick, except you usually know their last name, and you sleep with them multiple times.
Just friends. A friend you fucked once, usually on a whim or whilst drunk.
Friend with privileges. A friend whom you fuck, occasionally or frequently. (My roommate is currently an enemy with privileges.) May have begun either as a friendship or as a trick. Exes with whom you stay friendly can often end up being FWPs.
This guy/girl I’m seeing. You began a sexual relationship with them (trick, fuck buddy, whatever) without a pre-existing friendship, and you are moving into romantic territory.
Boyfriend/girlfriend. The only requirement for this is that you have agreed to be boyfriend[s]/girlfriend[s]. Formerly known as “going steady”. Typically involves a gift of some kind.
Fiancé[e]. Engaged to be married. Involves a ring.
Married. A public ceremony has taken place, and/or a legal certificate has been filled out, and/or you refer to each other as husband or wife. A subspecies is the domestic partner, which is a gay person’s husband or wife in a jurisdiction liberal enough to have gay marriage but not liberal enough to call it that. The French word for "to become domestic partners is “PACSer”, as in “Veux-tu PACSer avec moi?”
Partner. Have been living together forever but never bothered to get married. Synonyms: shacked up, living in sin, uhmmer (as in “This is Dale and his uhmmmmm…”), posslq or possslq (Person of Opposite Sex Sharing Living Quarters of Person Of Same Sex Sharing Living Quarters) - pronounced the same way, quasi, kimmering (if Ursula leGuin fans), the [wo]man [s]he lives with, etc. Family members of your partners are unlaws or outlaws, depending on how you feel about them.
Besides, they are all great guys, otherwise they wouldn’t be my friends.