My Kid's Friend's B****Mom - LONG!

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

I suppose I’ll join the pile on. Obviously, I haven’t read the emails you sent, but mentioning that the reason you’re contacting her is that another friend is moving away, and trying to invite your son along to their pool are both incredibly rude. If I were that mother, I might try to ignore it too.

And the paragraph about how her alleged elitism angers you makes me wonder if it’s just jealosy on your part.

How much different could that day have been if, instead of greeting her with a tight-lipped hello, you’d said something like “Oh, <name>, it’s so good to see you. I was worried that you hadn’t gotten my email. We simply must set up a playdate for these two rascals”? Allowing her to say “I’m so sorry I didn’t write you back. I’ve been so busy with <excuse>. I did remember to bring back your game, though. Thank you for lending it. <child> has been playing it like a <animal|insane person>.”

22

I truly appreciate the earnest responses here. There should be no pile-on. I admit that asking to tag along to the pool may have been presumptuous, but in no way would she have felt that Anthony is “second string”. The three boys when together are like the three musketeers.

I agree that had I approached her and been more generous that we probably could have carried a decent conversation on the surface. There is much more to this than meets the eye. I didn’t want to encourage the phony-fake exchanges that are so common. She acknowledged that she “just didn’t feel like talking, and that’s totally not like her” at the party in her response email. I don’t think I’m envious, just surprised that a woman who in the past has been so pleasant and friendly would abruptly become so distant. The boys WERE friends; like I mentioned he’s been here and mine has been there a few times.

Someone mentioned that I wasn’t going to be ignored. I think that is the botton line. How could you intentionally ignore someone when you’ve had a friendly rapport in the recent past? I realize the people and esp children move on to different friends as time and schools change. That’s okay. But we take the time to be considerate…

It was my knowledge that she intentionally ignored the first email (and when I said it was nice, it WAS nice - didn’t demand to go with them, didn’t say Alex is gone can I use your pool, just said and I quote “last year we went to your community pool. Do you think we might be able to join you sometime this summer?”. That’s it. No mention of second banana anything.

The reason I was cold is this: both Alex’s mom and I have wondered what’s up with this mom. Alex or his mom have never been to their house. Alex’s mom really has it together, she just says “I don’t know; it’s weird; I can’t explain it” when it comes to her own situation with them. She does feel a bit of resentment as well that her own invitations have been rebuffed too. I wish I had the personality that would allow me not to brood over perceived slights. REALLY WISH!

Being a recovering alcoholic, it’s literally therapeutic for me to get my feelings out in the open. Sitting on my hurts and such is what drove me to drink. I’d rather offend one woman who has hurt my feelings by telling her so (and HURT was the operable word) rather than diving into a bottle. Those sort of slights and hurts were a big part of my poor-self-esteem problems, I seem to just not know how to deal with them.

In my perfect world it would have happened thus:
She would have responded to the first email, saying “sure, we’ll bring the game, but we don’t think we’ll be going to the pool this summer” or whatever. Some crappy lie response is better than being ignored. Yes, I would not allow myself to be ignored. If that’s rude, well the rude went both ways. I knew that she’d gotten the mail, I knew she’d read it, I knew she didn’t choose to respond. I’m worth at least a “nope, sorry” or “sure, come on”.

The suggestion about my ex-best-friend is spot-on. Great observation. I’m gonna have to work on that one a bit harder. If you’ll move on to the “What’s the most inappropriate joke/comment you’ve made” thread in a few hours you’ll find the backstory there.

I don’t ignore or insult (intentionally) people that I think I’m friends with. Sorry to disagree, but I AM WORTH IT. With my social phobia firmly in place I make a real all-out effort each time I’m in such a situation. It’s not easy for me to make small talk or just BE in a group setting, I’m smart, friendly and considerate. There’s my self-love mantra.

Thanks for all the opines, it’s a great thing to be able to get so many different perspective on so many issues. Why I love the dope…even those people who don’t care so much about helping. I love you all (collectively)!

23

[QUOTE=RSSchen]

Being a recovering alcoholic, it’s literally therapeutic for me to get my feelings out in the open. Sitting on my hurts and such is what drove me to drink. I’d rather offend one woman who has hurt my feelings by telling her so (and HURT was the operable word) rather than diving into a bottle. Those sort of slights and hurts were a big part of my poor-self-esteem problems, I seem to just not know how to deal with them.
snip

I don’t ignore or insult (intentionally) people that I think I’m friends with. Sorry to disagree, but I AM WORTH IT. With my social phobia firmly in place I make a real all-out effort each time I’m in such a situation. It’s not easy for me to make small talk or just BE in a group setting, I’m smart, friendly and considerate. There’s my self-love mantra.

[/QUOTE]

I don’t really know how to say this the nice way, but I am trying: being a recoving alcoholic is not an excuse for rude behavior. It may be therapeutic to you to unload on whoever you imagine has slighted you, but the world is not your therapy couch.

You said that she admitted that the quiet behavior was unlike her. Maybe she’s going through some stuff that’s none of your business. You are not the only one in this little drama that is “worth it” to not have to tell people to mind their own business and that she really doesn’t owe you anything.

I am not going through anything and if it were me in real life, I would be wondering if taking on a friend as needy as you seem to be would leave me writing apology cards for looking at you funny during a movie or talking you through crying jags because the pizza delivery guy didn’t make a nice comment about your new top.

I’m no psychologist by any stretch of the imagination, but I wonder if true self esteem needs to be broadcast in all caps and reassured by someone that obviously doesn’t wish to pursue a relationship with you.

24

[QUOTE=RSSchen]
Someone mentioned that I wasn’t going to be ignored. I think that is the botton line. How could you intentionally ignore someone when you’ve had a friendly rapport in the recent past? I realize the people and esp children move on to different friends as time and schools change. That’s okay. But we take the time to be considerate…
[/QUOTE]

How could I intentionally ignore someone that I’ve had a friendly rapport with in the past? Deliberately and advisedly and without qualms, if I had been in some way burned by the experience.

[QUOTE=RSSchen]
It was my knowledge that she intentionally ignored the first email (and when I said it was nice, it WAS nice - didn’t demand to go with them, didn’t say Alex is gone can I use your pool, just said and I quote “last year we went to your community pool. Do you think we might be able to join you sometime this summer?”. That’s it. No mention of second banana anything.
[/QUOTE]

You are underestimating your prey. You don’t have to say “second banana” for her to righly hear “second banana.” It’s called subtext.

And borrowing a resource is borrowing a resource. For some reason, people short on luxuries tend to think it’s okay to horn in on other people’s luxuries in ways that they would never presume upon other people’s “necessities.” In my social group, to the extent that I socialize at all (my choice), pretty much everyone has a washer and dryer but only some of us are members of community pools or country clubs or have backyard pools. There are, however, a couple of women who lack washers and dryers. People who would never consider saying, “Hey, why don’t I bring my laundry over and I’ll spend the morning at your house washing my clothes” have no hesitation about saying “Were you planning to swim today, because Ashley and Brittany and little Russell wouldn’t go to sleep at bedtime last night because they kept wanting to talk about your pool.”

[QUOTE=RSSchen]
The reason I was cold is this: both Alex’s mom and I have wondered what’s up with this mom. Alex or his mom have never been to their house. Alex’s mom really has it together, she just says “I don’t know; it’s weird; I can’t explain it” when it comes to her own situation with them. She does feel a bit of resentment as well that her own invitations have been rebuffed too. I wish I had the personality that would allow me not to brood over perceived slights. REALLY WISH!
[/QUOTE]

I see. Yes, you do need to punish this mom for forcing you and Alex’s mom to have to wonder and gossip about her. And maybe she does owe both of you a look at her house so you can find more to fault about her and possibly even some more cool stuff to which you may decide she owes you access.

If you’ve never been to her house, she is an acquaintance from wom you have no reason to expect anything.

You seem to get far too much out of brooding about perceived slights to give up either the brooding or the perceiving.

[QUOTE=RSSchen]
Being a recovering alcoholic, it’s literally therapeutic for me to get my feelings out in the open. Sitting on my hurts and such is what drove me to drink. I’d rather offend one woman who has hurt my feelings by telling her so (and HURT was the operable word) rather than diving into a bottle. Those sort of slights and hurts were a big part of my poor-self-esteem problems, I seem to just not know how to deal with them.
[/QUOTE]

So you’ve given up your old approach to managing your emotional wounds. That’s commendable. However, you have put something important into words here. You did not heal the emotional wounds or your tendency to re-wound yourself or allow yourself to be wounded. You seem still to be collecting injustices, at least some of which are imagined, and expecting that other people should adjut their behaviors to suit your abnormal or at least overly sensitive internal emotional processes. But, the responsibility is really on you. If you don’t know how to deal, you need to find out.

[QUOTE=RSSchen]
In my perfect world it would have happened thus:
She would have responded to the first email, saying “sure, we’ll bring the game, but we don’t think we’ll be going to the pool this summer” or whatever. Some crappy lie response is better than being ignored.
[/QUOTE]

How about the crappy lie of saying “Hi!” as if she were happy to see you or as if she were pretending to be cordial? You punished her for that right quick. No. No honest rebuff or crappy lie was going to satisfy you.

Tabby

25

Four words: get over it, girlfriend. And, btw, stop being so rude to Anthony’s poor mom.
She really doesn’t owe you anything. No casual acquaintance does. For whatever reason she doesn’t want to have a play date with your son. Maybe she does feel like Anthony is being treated like second string. Maybe she does feel like you’re treating her and Anthony as free passes to the pool. How would you feel if she sent you an e-mail telling you that? Like crap, probably. And it is certainly not her problem that it’s theraputic for you to vent your feelings. That is why there are therapists. From where I’m sitting, the best case scenario here is that she doesn’t gossip about this situation to the other daycare moms. The good news is, you can start fresh in kindergarten and it won’t be long after that that your son will be handling his own social life.
-Caricci, who has also felt snubbed by the other day care moms on occasion.

26

[QUOTE=RSSchen]
I truly appreciate the earnest responses here. There should be no pile-on. I admit that asking to tag along to the pool may have been presumptuous, but in no way would she have felt that Anthony is “second string”. The three boys when together are like the three musketeers.
[/quote]

And my son has been good friends (and in fact is, right now) with another kid whose Mom I have barely exchanged two words with. SO WHAT? Just because the kids are friends, doesn’t mean you and mom have to be friends, nor does it mean the other mom is even interested in a friendship.

Again - why badger her? She doesn’t owe anyone any explanations!

And part of being considerate means that you have to understand that sometimes people will be distant - it ain’t all about you. There are times when I don’t want to talk to my husband - it isn’t about HIM, it’s about something going on with me. And it’s no one’s business but my own, and frankly, I owe no one an explanation.

It was still out of line, IMO. And frankly, second banana comes through real clear to me - I suppose it’s all in the context.

Ok, good, it’s good that you recognize that this is YOUR issue - not HERS. Let it go.

So is my mom - 20 years plus - and you know what, like someone said earlier, the world ain’t your therapy couch.

Life ain’t perfect. Frankly, it boggles my mind that you are making the mountain out of a molehill that you are over this. LET IT GO.

Honey, it’s not that I don’t care about helping - I’m trying to tell you (in my not so subtle way) that you’re really blowing this way out of proportion. Seriously. LET IT GO.

27

The OP struck all kinds of chords with me, I admit.

I also have a social phobia combined with a deeply ingrained attitude that the world revolves around me. If someone isn’t as warm towards me as they have been in the past, I instantly assume that (a) they have been faking their former niceness, (b) they are rude, © they hate me, and (d) I have done something wrong and I need to somehow fix it, OR retaliate in kind.

It is a frigging exhausting way to go through life, and honestly, it means friendships and other relationships (family, workplace, etc) are a real chore.

Part of me craves the friendship, the communication, the nice social interactions. Another part of me KNOWS how tied up in knots I will get over the slightest misstep or awkwardness or “snub”.

I have been off work on maternity leave since last fall. I LOVE being at home with my baby and being able to pick and choose whom I see and when. If I’m feeling particularly vulnerable or stressed or anxious or cranky, then I avoid going out - even grocery shopping. I make an effort to sign up for Mom & Me groups, exercise classes, Baby Sign classes, etc - because I KNOW that I need to have some kind of a life outside of our house. While I’m in those classes, in a structured, friendly, supportive environment - I do all right with people. But as soon as class is over, I think I send out the “needy” vibe that is described in the OP, and none of these classes have resulted in any friendships. This both saddens me and is a relief.

I know that I have to continue going to counselling and working on these issues, if for no other reason than to be able to teach my daughter (by example) how to make friends and get along with people.

I also want her to have a healthy self-esteem, so that if someone brushes her off, she doesn’t take it personally, like I do.

The OP states that this woman is moving - well, that is a busy, stressful, time, and of course maintaining and nurturing a casual acquaintance is not even on her radar.

I sympathize, and I understand, I just have no advice, except to perhaps seek counselling to help you resolve some of the issues that are holding you back from finding the friendships you desire.

Good luck.

(Sorry this is so long).

28

[QUOTE=RSSchen]
Being a recovering alcoholic, it’s literally therapeutic for me to get my feelings out in the open. Sitting on my hurts and such is what drove me to drink. I’d rather offend one woman who has hurt my feelings by telling her so (and HURT was the operable word) rather than diving into a bottle. Those sort of slights and hurts were a big part of my poor-self-esteem problems, I seem to just not know how to deal with them.
[/QUOTE]

I must have missed the Step which instructed me to that it was my right to air my grievances to the people who pissed me off, because my Big Book kinda said that I was supposed to do a searching and fearless moral inventory of MYSELF, not other people.

As a recovering alcoholic, I really resent you using this excuse for being rude.

29

You know, Stainz’s post reminds me a lot of me. I perceive slights where they are none and find developing relationships to be VERY difficult. But I still stand by my earlier post. RSSchen, you were very much in the wrong.

30

I’m glad that the concept of the “play date” happened after my kid grew up. I’ve only liked/had anything in common with one or two of his playmates’ parents. He’d play there or they’d play at our house. I don’t need to like them and they certainly don’t need to like me. I agree that not speaking to someone is a little odd, but that’s the way it goes sometimes.

31

[QUOTE=Tabula Rasa]
You are underestimating your prey.
[/QUOTE]

My skin crawled a little bit when I read this. Sorry.

I guess I don’t understand the mindset of actively trying to arrange friends for yourself and your child. My kids have friends, and I’m acquainted with their parents. I have friends who have children, and my kids are acquainted with them enough to interact and have fun when we have whole family visits. Do people really make efforts to manufacture these mother/child joint friendships? That just feels…strange, but then, I don’t identify myself by my association to my child. Actually, that’s a little strong for the statement I was trying to get across. I don’t feel the need to be friends with someone just because they have a child the same age as mine or even have children at all. I don’t consider motherhood to be enough of something in common on which to base a friendship.
And being freaked about nonresponse to an email is just wacky. If someone emailed me in that manner, and I knew I was going to see them shortly, in person, I wouldn’t have emailed back either! I would have brought the item to return and expected to discuss the topic in person.

32

[QUOTE=FaerieBeth]
My skin crawled a little bit when I read this. Sorry.
[/QUOTE]

It was supposed to.

Tabby

33

I have heard so many horror stories about daycare moms, kindergarten moms, elementary school moms … the cliques, the bitchiness - and lots of it seems to extend to daycare boards, PAC memberships (Parents Advisory Council), even birthday parties. It sounds like high school all over again! What a nightmare.

34

[QUOTE=FaerieBeth]
…

I guess I don’t understand the mindset of actively trying to arrange friends for yourself and your child. …
[/QUOTE]

In RSSchen’s defence, the children in question are not yet school-age and go to daycare. I did playdates too (and hated every minute of it) because my kid wanted to play with his friends and they didn’t live in the neighborhood. I could have and maybe should have taken the hard line that they played all week and weekends were family time, but I didn’t. At any rate, most people don’t let preschoolers go down the street to play by themselves. So that’s why there are playdates. First you go with the kid, then, you drop them off, then they start finding playmates by themselves.

35

[QUOTE=Stainz]
I have heard so many horror stories about daycare moms, kindergarten moms, elementary school moms … the cliques, the bitchiness - and lots of it seems to extend to daycare boards, PAC memberships (Parents Advisory Council), even birthday parties. It sounds like high school all over again! What a nightmare.
[/QUOTE]

It can be. My town is an upscale suburb of a capital city with several colleges including an Ivy League school. The other moms are either high level professionals such as professors and lawyers or they are 28 year old size 2 trophy wives. I feel like a retarded troll half the time.

36

[QUOTE=Caricci]
It can be. My town is an upscale suburb of a capital city with several colleges including an Ivy League school. The other moms are either high level professionals such as professors and lawyers or they are 28 year old size 2 trophy wives. I feel like a retarded troll half the time.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but that last line made me laugh out loud. I would not be able to hack it in your town, that’s for damn sure.

If you are a “retarded troll”, I would be seen as a “bitchy-needy-clumsy giant” in that world.

Back to the OP - I know it sucks when someone doesn’t act towards you in the way that you feel she should. But I don’t think there is anything you can do now to make things better, except to keep quiet, let go, move on and try to learn from it in the future. I wish you all the best.

37

[QUOTE=Caricci]
In RSSchen’s defence, the children in question are not yet school-age and go to daycare. I did playdates too (and hated every minute of it) because my kid wanted to play with his friends and they didn’t live in the neighborhood. I could have and maybe should have taken the hard line that they played all week and weekends were family time, but I didn’t.
[/QUOTE]

I understand the child is in daycare, but I guess I’m one of those people who take the “hard line” you referenced. My 4 year old plays with his little daycare friends from 8am to 3:45 pm during the regular school year. Weekends and non-school times are for family, travel, or hobby time.
The “arrange friends for yourself and your child” comment was more toward the idea that your child’s best friend’s mom must also be your best friend. I find that a little off-putting.

38

[QUOTE=FaerieBeth]

The “arrange friends for yourself and your child” comment was more toward the idea that your child’s best friend’s mom must also be your best friend. I find that a little off-putting.
[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. There’s a person in my family who, when her kids were younger, would always tell me this mom or that mom was a bitch for reasons similar to that described in the OP. I didn’t get and still don’t get why she cared so much about their behavior towards her. But, then again, she was a SAHM during that period and she didn’t live among friends and family so I guess she seemed to feel that this is how she would make friends. I was going to say, to her credit she never sent a scolding e-mail to any of these women, but actually she might have. As for me, the mother of my son’s friend since the infant room in his daycare seems to have dropped us for more social people. The kids still see each other at school and after school program. Frankly, it’s a relief not to have to be socially obligated to one more person.

39

[QUOTE=FaerieBeth]
The “arrange friends for yourself and your child” comment was more toward the idea that your child’s best friend’s mom must also be your best friend. I find that a little off-putting.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with you also. I don’t live close to any friends or family and am finding it difficult to make new friends for myself outside of work and taking care of the kids. My oldest daughter’s best friend has a little brother the same age as my toddler. The older kids have sleepovers, are in the same class, and are on the same soccer team. The little ones play together at practice and at games and get along very well. Their mother and I get along fine, sharing genial conversations and seeking each other out at some school events.

But although these ties are there and I think the mom is cool - I don’t think that we have to be friends. It would be nice for me but I recognize that she has an established social circle and a full life. My needs aren’t her obligation.

On the other hand though, my two best girlfriends also have children the same age as my kids. It’s kinda funny how we expect our kids to be friends when they don’t have ties except their parents. Why do we expect from kids what we realize is unreasonable with adults?