My life wasn’t supposed to be like this

Well Green Bean, maybe you are right. We met me in real life so you have more information to go on about me than other posters on the board have. Persephone, Brynda, sandyr, OldBroad and Zette thank for your insights regarding this as well. But I can’t do it. I just am not willing to ask for that kind of help. I can’t get past the negative feelings I had from the experience I had when I saw a psychiatrist when I was a kid mixed with how I was manipulated by supposed counselors when I was in a Christian cult in the 70’s. I am not willing to trust at that level.

But I will at least add the possibility I may be dealing with more than just a physical issue to my thinking process. Damn! I thought everybody wanted nothing to do with me cause I am fat and old, and now I find it might be because I am clinically depressed. How bad does that suck?!?

Note to self: If I ever wonder what too many drugs do to the mind, ask G. Nome. :wink:

Wanderer,

Glad you are seeing that you probably have clinical depression. I had a bad bout of it about 10 years ago, and it is miserable. And not knowing I was depressed made it worse. If someone had told me “The chemicals in your brain are telling you it’s all hopeless - this is not reality talking” it might have made it a little easier. It all feels so REAL. But it’s not. All those feelings of hopelessness are a lie. I’ve been there (a lot of us have) and I know what I’m talking about.

Our good thoughts are with you, and also our prayers. Things can and will get better.

Brynda, No one will hurt you, you provided an excellent post, and excellent insights! Welcome to the Straight Dope!

Wanderer - I think Brynda is on to something. She recommended some good books too, looks like. I think you are getting some top-notch advice here.

I’m with Brynda on this one. She really seems to know what she’s talking about here.

I don’t know much about pain management, but I do know about depression. I’m depressed myself, and I’m currently taking Celexa for it.

I never thought I might be depressed until my physician suggested it. I started on Wellbutrin, and it worked pretty well. Then I got in with a psychiatrist, and he switched me to Celexa, since I’m epileptic and he wasn’t comfortable with me taking Wellbutrin.

The Celexa is kicking ass & taking names.

I never realized that not only was I depressed, I was really depressed, until the Celexa kicked in & made me start feeling better. I had grown so accustomed to feeling crappy that it became normal. I never realized how unmotivated I had been until I caught myself having a good time washing dishes, a task that I normally loathe. Nearly every aspect of my life has improved since I started taking this drug. I cannot believe it.

Wanderer, depression may be your problem. I understand your fears, though. Brynda has some excellent suggestions, and I would recommend following her advice. Try reading some books first, then maybe sometime in the future, see some sort of doctor.

Best of luck to you!

As you’ve probably figured out by now, you aren’t alone in your pain and confusion, Wanderer. Please listen to the wise advice of the folks here; they’re not only concerned, they’re right.

Life tosses the most godawful unfair, sucky, terrible burdens onto good people. I’ve given up trying to make sense of it and have just accepted it. It’s real, it happens, it sucks…now what?

But repeated blows cause their own illness, and the wise Dopers above named it. It’s called depression. This would probably horrify medical experts but it’s almost a symptom of overload. It’s a sign of things being too much.

It’s medical, it’s treatable and it’s the source of many of your problems. Yeah, the source. Depression taps every bit of strength, hope and joy out of a person, so that solutions seem impossible and even trying pointless.

Get help! A good M.D. who listens will be able to get you started. (Hint: you may not have a family doc yet. By luck I stumbled into a specialist in geriatrics! I needed an emergency tetanus shot and he was taking new patients. NO, I’m not that old; just lucky! Maybe due to his specialization he’s unfailingly patient and gentle. Give it a try!)

Your weight, hopelessness and emptiness are symptoms, Wanderer; not accurate reflections of who you are or what life still holds for you.

Wishing you all the best,
Veb

So, Wanderer, you ask for advice, in the Pit, no less. Do you realize how lucky you are that you aren’t standing there aiming a spray can of Sunburn Numzit at your flaming red ass?

That’s because when you get right down to it, we’re a caring bunch of people, here at the Straight Dope Message Board, aren’t we? We wouldn’t dream of flaming someone who was in such obvious need, for posting his thread in the wrong forum. There’s a time and a place for flaming, and we are sensitive enough to realize that this isn’t it.

Okay.

Now, so far, seven, count 'em, SEVEN, of the strongest, nicest, most sensible and down-to-earth goddesses of the Straight Dope have posted to this “help me” thread of yours, passing along to you, most fortunate of mortals, some of their hard-won wisdom. Sandyr, Zette, Persephone, Oldbroad, GreenBean, Yosemitebabe, and TVeblen have all checked in, plus one newbie, Brynda, to whom your cry for help was important enough to impel her to de-lurk.

So, what are these message board goddesses saying?

"Get help."

And are you getting help?

No. You are sitting there on the couch whining about how you’re scared of those big bad doctors. Oooh, they made me talk about icky things, they scared me, I don’t wanna go back there! I’d much rather sit here in the Pit and complain and have everybody pet my head and offer me cookies.

I’ve got a news flash for you, babe–when a goddess offers advice, only a truly stupid person ignores it.

I don’t think you’re a stupid person. I think you’re somebody who’s in a lot of pain, both mental and physical. But Calypso’s cooties, boy! If you’re hurtin’, you go get it fixed. So maybe they can’t fix your feet, but they can damn well fix your head. Seven, count 'em, SEVEN goddesses just told you that.

So get off the couch, kiddo, and start dialing that phone. Don’t gimme no back-talk, now…

And I’m talking to you like this, blunt-like, because I consider myself your friend. If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t even have opened your thread, let alone posted to it.

So.

DDG, I am not saying I don’t appreciate everyone’s kind words, but I posted this in the pit because it is a rant. Perhaps not a rant as usually conducted in the pit, but just because I am not swearing, doesn’t mean it isn’t a rant. I was bitching and whining at god, if there is one, for allowing me to get the problem I had always feared, which is to be physically incapacitated. And yes, it was also a cry for help, but then again most other rants are cries for help too, otherwise why publicly post them? But the swearing and insults usually end up setting the tone of the thread and it degrades into a shapeless mishmash of venon. Maybe this thread is no different, but when I swear I only sound stupid, so I prefer not to add stupidity to my long list of shortcomings.

I could have put this thread in MPSIMS, but personally I don’t like to see this kind of thread there so I figured others wouldn’t want to see it there either.

I respect the opinions that I may have clinical depression, and while I hadn’t considered it before, I am not willing to take the steps suggested. I am not going to give ANYONE the chance to fuck with my mind again.

As a footnote I would like to add that I just can’t seem to escape the word “whiner”. I really hate being perceived as a whiner, but unfortunately I hear it all too often as a descripter of me. I think it is the fate of perfectionists. I have experienced perfection a couple times in my life and it is almost a bad thing, because you try to make everything else you shoot for reach perfection and of course it usually fails but there is that little spark inside that thought this time might be the time when everything is perfect and the letdown that it isn’t turns into whining.

Wanderer,
Since you’re adament about not getting any help for your depression, I do have some other advice that helped me a lot.

Make sure you’re on the best treatment plan you can be- if a particular drug (like Neruontin) gives you bad side effects, seek an alternative. It look me about 8 years to find a pain control combo that worked well.

Try to keep a positive attitude. It’s going to be hard in light of your current situation, but it’s a must. I’ve asked myself over and over why I’ve been robbed on my ability to be “normal” (physically). I’ll never know.

“Force” yourself to get out more. Even though it hurts, try your very best. See if you can manage a movie a week or a book club meeting. Try to find just one community type event you can look forward to weekly. At least if you can get out a little more, you may make some friends who would like to come over and spend time with you.

Lastly, I’ll offer my on-line friendship. Having a disease that physically diables you can be as devastating as a death of a loved one- believe me, I know. Sometimes all you want is someone to talk to, bitch to, or cry in frustration to. If you want to do that, you can feel free to e-mail me. I won’t mention professional help again, but I’ll listen and help if possible.

Good luck to you. It’s a very tough road, but don’t give up hope. Tomorrow may be a better day.
Zette

In case you find anything here helpful:

http://neuro-www.mgh.harvard.edu/forum/PeripheralNeuropathyMenu.html

http://www.aidsinfonyc.org/network/simple/neurop.html

Especially this one.
http://www.mayohealth.org/mayo/9811/htm/neuropathy.htm

There is lots more out there and the more you know, the better your chances are of getting good treatment. Good luck!
Zette

Just for the record, Wanderer, you’re not fat.

I probably should have put a quote in the above post…

I don’t think you’re old, either. I’ve got clothing older than you.

DDG, thanks for the very kind description of those of us who have posted to this thread! Not too often that someone who is considered one of the Most Valuable Posters here refers to me as a Goddess.

Anyway, back to Wanderer. I’ve got to address something you said in your last post. It’s this:

This jumped out at me. Why? Because I’m married to one of these. We are currently in counseling. Our psychologist, as well as my husband’s last psychiatrist, believe that his whining may well be the cause of my depression. Believe me when I say it sucks rocks. Big, cold, hard, dead rocks, my friend.

(What follows is NOT a flame–it is a personal observation by someone with a LOT of experience in dealing with this!)
You need professional help, else you will not find the friends you seek. I am so living this right now.

My husband and I are both very determined to save our marriage, and we have had a few truly astounding insights over the last few sessions. I am convinced that our marriage will be saved, and we will be just fine. There’s a lot more work to be done, but we’re on the right track. But we had a major breakthrough when my husband realized just how badly his chronic whining was affecting me, our marriage, and his career (he’s a musician).

It’s aggravating when children whine. I’m sure you’ve heard parents tell their kids to “stop that whining!” That’s because it’s so unbelievably annoying! When adults do it, and do it a lot, as you’ve said you do, it drives the other adults around them positively batshit.

I’m not going to stand here and shake my finger at you and tell you to stop whining, Wanderer. That won’t help you at all. What I will tell you is this: if you don’t find out what causes you to behave in that way, and learn how not to do it, you will not, no way no how, ever be able to maintain any friendships.

Complaining about your physical pain is one thing. Your medical condition certainly sounds very, very painful, and we all complain when we are in pain. But chronic whining about life in general because you’re a perfectionist, will get you nowhere, very, very quickly.

Okay, now start reading those books, check out the links, and please, please consider getting mental help. Also, please feel free to email me anytime you like! Really, I’m not so bad!

To me, a “whiner” is someone who complains, or expresses distress over a problem, but does nothing to remedy it.

Wanderer, If you are unwilling to get therapy (and I am not judging you one way or another on that) you must do SOMETHING. I think getting the books recommended here is a good start. Just the act of DOING SOMETHING will help. Really. And when you are doing something, even a little thing, you will shed the “whiner” mantle.

I remember being so bowled over with depression, every little act was an effort. Something that seems like a “small” step to a person not suffering with depression can be a profound step, requiring profound effort, for a depressed person. I remember feeling like I had Done Some Great Thing when I merely washed the dishes! And I felt better after washing the dishes. It helped. I had DONE something.

Wanderer, if the act of going to a therapist is out for you right now, it is. But the books shouldn’t be. This is my advice, take it for what it’s worth. Take some baby steps, do SOMETHING. You will feel a little better. Don’t think about doing some Big Thing. Just do some small thing that is aimed in the general direction of helping you grapple with your depression. Enough “small things” will add up. You’ll see.

And our prayers are with you.

In that case, I have another book recommendation for you–Feeling Good by David Burns. It is an excellent do-it-yourself cognitive-behavioral approach to depression that really addresses perfectionism well. You’ll never be perfect on a regular basis, Wanderer, and your search for perfectionism will only make you unhappy–and here is the clincher–it will make you LESS efficient, LESS productive, LESS perfect, in a word. In the book, he shows research demonstrating that perfectionistic salespeople sold less, for example. Anyway, I am not going to summarize the whole thing here. Go buy it. Geez, I deserve a commission

I think we all get it that you are not willing to check out therapy. But how can you argue against reading a few books? Hmm? Got you there, don’t we?

Note to everyone: Thanks for the kind reception. Unfortunately, this is the one subject I know jack about, so don’t expect much in the future. However, I do limit myself to one smilie per post, in a blatant attempt not to piss folks off too badly. :slight_smile:

Whining may be defined as “childish complaining to no purpose.” There are two kinds of whining. Whining about things you can’t change, and whining about things you can.

Either you are complaining in a childish voice about something you can’t change, in which case you should just be quiet, or you are complaining in a childish voice about something you CAN change, in which case you should get off your butt and do something about it.

Here’s an example of whining about things you can’t change, courtesy of La Principessa, age 10: “It’s not fair!”
My response: “Tough toenails.”

Want more? Okay. How about, “Why CAN’T we go to McDonalds?”
My response: “Because I said so.”

How about:
She: “This homework is too hard!”
Me: “I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect fourth graders to do long division for homework. Homework has to be done. Tough toenails”

Here’s an example of whining about things you can change, also courtesy of Madame: “I’m bored.”
My response? “Find something to do. Then you won’t be bored anymore.”
She: “I can’t think of anything.”
Me: [I suggest several things]
She (whining): “I don’t wanna do any of those.”
Me: “Fine. Be bored.”

Want more? Okay. How about, “I don’t have anybody to play with.”
My response? “Where are Andi and Amber (not to mention Chelsea and Christina and Taylor and Paige) today?”
She: “I dunno.”
Me: “Call up one of them, or go knock on their door.”
She (whining): “I don’t want to.”
Me: “Why not?”
She: [a long confusing whine about how some of them don’t like each other, none of which is relevant to the question, and actually all it boils down to is the fact that she enjoys the feeling of power she gets when THEY call HER, or ring HER doorbell. Also, she doesn’t like being the supplicant, and risking rejection.]
Me: “Well, if you can’t figure it out, then don’t complain that you don’t have anybody to play with.”

When my daughter whines at me, I tell her, “Okay, now, that noise coming out of your mouth is whining. Stop it, or else go upstairs/outside/sit in the way-back with Bonzo and the dog and the four thousand Beast Wars Transformers.”

With you, Wanderer, I don’t have the option of making you sit in the way-back with Chee-tor and Optimus Optimal and Daisy the Beagle. But I do have the option of not opening any more of your threads. Yeah, you’re right, you’re getting a reputation of being a whiner. So–cut it out, okay? Here’s how it works.

Whining is not the same thing as a rant or a bitch or a complaint. A rant is full of fury. Bitching is full of anger. Complaining is when you expect something to change. But complaining changes to whining when (a) you do it all the time, and (b) it’s done in a measly, weasely tone of voice.

This is a rant: “My life sucks!”
This is a bitch: “God, my life is horrible!”
This is whining: “My life isn’t what I intended.”

If you’re gonna complain, then for heaven’s sake, do it right! Rant and rave and stomp your feet, like King Lear raging at the heavens. “Blow, winds, and crack your cheeks!” But here’s King Lear whining: “Sharper than a serpent’s tooth is an ungrateful child…”

The trick to stopping the bad habit of whining is, simply, to shut up. Zip the lip. Put a sock in it. If you can’t think of something furious to say, don’t say anything at all.

And if you want to complain about something, your feet or your head or your lack of a girlfriend or whatever, then make it a solid complaint, or a bitch, or a rant. Not a whine. Don’t tell us your life is merely miserable–tell us your life sucks, and say it like you mean it. I know you can do it.

I saw the OP as an expression of pain (on many levels, actually). When people feel pain they often cry out. Generally, when I hear an expression of pain I try to focus on the cause rather than the aesthetic qualities of the expression. A child whining because she wants another cookie and a soldier whining after being gut shot are similar expressions of radically different pains.

I have no idea whether Wanderer is clinically depressed. He might be. Certainly his posts have displayed some symptoms of depression. They also display symptoms of a person isolated by physical pain, geographic relocation, a shift in jobs, a recent divorce, etc.

Given similar circumstances I might cry out, too. That cry might even sound like a whine to some of you. Fair enough. But if you compared my pain to your daughter’s desire for a happy meal, I do not think I would accept the analogy as an expression of friendship.

Oh, no! I should be phrasing that more forcefully. Someone might think I’m whining.

shrug

I guess I should say, “That sucks!”

I hardly think comparing a child’s whining to Wanderer’s problems is fair.

Some of us get dealt a shitty hand. It’s up to each of us to play it out the best we can. I’ve buried my first (and most likely, only) child, seen my ex dragged off in chains, and I live with the knowledge that I could have the same happen to me, anytime the DA felt like it.

Am I bitter? You bet your ass. Do I whine about it? Quite often. Do I live with it? Yes, with a little help from a therapist and my Walgreens pharmacist.

I suggest, not as a fellow poster, but as a fellow human being, that we remember that some of us deal with far worse than the rest can ever imagine. Let’s not lecture each other with “my pain is worse than your pain”, nor with “suck it up and take it”. No one likes a whiner, but no one likes a lecturer, either.

Robin

I addressed the whining issue because Wanderer referred to himself as a whiner. Because I am living in a relationship with someone who does this, I felt like I should speak, so that Wanderer would know how this affects the people around him.

My intent was not to lecture. DDG did indeed lecture, and I’ve got to say, it was one of the finest lectures I’ve ever read. Those words have come out of my very own mouth, to my husband (Principessa and my husband sound remarkably similar–we may have to talk, DDG!)

I too have explained to my husband the difference between a “bitch” and a “whine.” As I said in one of my earlier posts, I understand whining about physical pain, and I have no problem with it. It is the whining about situations that one does indeed have the power to change that can be so aggravating.

Wanderer can change some of his own situation. He just has to want to, and then he has to actually do it. Change can be terrifying for some people, especially when it involves changing one’s way of thinking and being. But it’s not always a bad thing. My husband is experiencing this right now. He’s scared, but he knows that taking control of his own life is the only thing he can do now, particularly when it comes to his career. It’s been so easy for him to blame his failures on other people, but now he’s beginning to realize just how much of it he’s brought on himself.

The Serenity Prayer was written for people like Wanderer and my husband. I’m trying to get my husband to start living it, and so far, he seems to be heading in that direction. I believe that Wanderer can, too.

I saw him state that it was a label he had applied to him by others. His further statements indicated to me that it was not a label that matched his own self-image. Now, if several people call you a whiner there is a chance you are whining. There is also a chance you have run across people who have not empathized with your pain.

I have no idea which is more likely in this case. I only note that I did not perceive any petulance or childish mewling in the OP. Perception, of course, is subjective. It may be that living with a husband or a child who whines at trivia makes one less tolerant of expressions of pain from other people.

We all have our crosses to bear. I maintain that we do ourselves no service as a community if we cannot allow a man to say “I’m in pain” without lecturing him about his choice of words.

Regarding the whining thing: In all fairness I have had people say about it about me in other threads and I hear it said about me in real life, so I won’t pretend to say that it is new to this thread. But I have never found a successful way to express the helplessness with those things that seem unchangable. I don’t feel I whine about those things I can change. I didn’t like to be in Texas so when I divorced, I moved. Cost me lots of money and the cost to me emotionally and socially is not even measurable, but I did it. I hated being in New Jersey and when I could move (I was bound by a lease) I did, again costing me lots of money. But trying to make friends seems to be something that is undoable for me. I can’t get a date to save my life. This thing with my feet feels beyond my control. I feel helpless and unempowered and complaining about it seems the only thing I have left to me. I suppose I could get angry and rant about it, but remember I am the guy who inspired the “hags of the straight dope” after an attempt to flame some people I thought were my detractors. I am not good at getting angry, and getting ugly so I accept the fact I can’t do it and so I won’t. That leaves me as a whiner to some people. So be it.