I suppose I would. My speech does not change a thing. Does yours?
I know that you are not saying that I don’t love my country, because I do, I think you feel the same way.
Your outrage is not without merit, actually I support it, but what good does bitching do? Is this some sort of underground movement that actually changes things? Let me know if I can help, otherwise “actions speak louder than words”.
We all know your position, I’d be happy to join you if you actually did something. Lead by example, any retard can complain.
You’re not alone. Apparently, Max_Castle has failed to grasp that “dissent” can’t come from the party in power, but only from those who are currently out of power. The right wing still thinks of itself as some sort of repressed minority, despite holding the White House, both houses of Congress, and, increasingly, the bulk of the Federal judicial positions.
I’m confused about this. Insults aren’t allowed in the Pit?? The Pit is FULL of gratuitous insults of every kind. Some are insults directed at individuals, some at groups. Why are some okay and some are not?
Reeder, while I personally want DeLay in jail with 400 pounds of Texas testosterone named Bubba, and I do realize that insults are allowed in the Pit, if you avoid using them when unnecessary (as in this case, where it is obvious that DeLay is an ass of humongous proportions), then people will actually have to stick to addressing your rant, and not the way you presented it.
Back to the topic, I am truly becoming a bigger and bigger fan of DeLay on a daily basis. As long as he stays in power, he’ll do more harm to the Republican party’s ideals than even the Bush administration has done. While I’m a lefty, I actually enjoy having conservatives in the government, and lots of them. With people like DeLay attempting to strip away rights, the true conservatives will either abandon ship, or take their party back eventually. Happy days will be here again when that happens.
They haven’t tried to take back their party yet-- what makes you think they ever will? They are addicted to the power they have now. They know they only have this power because the religious right has scared millions of dumb-fucks into voting Republican, but the true Conservatives don’t care about that-- they just want to stay in control.
What we need is a true multi-party system. So the Conservatives could have their own party, and so could the Liberals. The ultra-religious nutjobs then would be left out in the cold, and as for the rest of the Republicrats and Demolicans they could just stay in the wishy-washy center as one centist party.
That’s why I stated that one option is that they will abandon ship. I can see someone along the lines of a McCain starting a third party that might actually start a nice rift in the ranks. I do believe that folks will one day wake up and realize their party was stolen from them, but admittedly it might take some time. What good does it do me if my party is in power if it is no longer a party that represents my interests? Why would it be any different for them?
The folks in power now are not conservative in the true sense of the word, and I miss that part of the Republican party. While I’m often accused of being an across the board liberal, I’m a fan of smaller government and protecting the constitution at all costs. Hell, I don’t even want to take their guns away from them, even though I am a fan of some gun controls. The true Republicans having some power is a good thing. We’re just short on those types at the moment.
Unfortunately, after talking with several people at the office who are currently planning on voting for Bush, the only reason any of them gave was the tax cuts. They just don’t care about the rest of the stuff he does. Once I explained basic accounting principles to them (and they all had children, so I painted a picture of who’s going to have pay for the cuts), they were very quiet. We’ll see where it goes from here.
Reeder is rightly alarmed in this instance. And he is right to blame all lapdog Republicans in power who go along with this nonsense. And yet, he is foolish to believe that the Democrats will be his savior. These two parties together comprise a ruling cabal that controls everything from ballot access to legislation. And just like clockwork, every election cycle they go out and pretend to be different from one another, dividing the nation in half like bookies looking for the mean where they need to split the bets. This time, they have succeeded magnificently. There is practically a 50-50 split between Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. Whatever DeLay and other Republicans are doing, the Democrats are cooperating. It is not enough that the Democrats vote against this kind of crap (which, incidentally, they don’t always do — consider the Patriot Act and DOMA, for example). If they gave a shit, they would raise holy hell. Use filibusters, bully pulpits, and every possible tactic at their disposal to wake people up and warn them that their freedom is slipping away. Even when the gay marriage ammendment was being voted on in the Senate, Kerry and Edwards were conspicuously absent. Yes, they knew that it could not pass, but rather than doing nothing, they should have been fighting the bastards who introduced this tooth and nail with an ammendment of their own that would prohibit Congress from defining marriage. Meanwhile, leftists and rightists toe their way up to their assigned lines and start screaming at each other. “Our guy is less horrible than your guy!” I’m voting for Kerry but only begrudgingly. I have no delusions about him. I’ve heard his speeches before. Same shit every election. A better America. Think of the children. Restore trust to the White House. The joke is on us, and Hitler was right: it is indeed lucky for rulers that men do not think.
But why should they so easily fall for the transparent tactic of pulling them off the campaign trail and off their message? Surely the best way to fight them tooth and nail is to unseat them, no? Won’t their chances of doing so be hurt if they do actually rush back to Washington (or simply remain in Washington) to block and fight all the nonsense the conservatives want to throw at them. How many FMA’s do you think Frist could come up with if Kerry gave him that chance?
And rather than formulate a pointless rant claiming that the Democrats and Republicans are the same on this issue, why not demonstrate such to us in a way that we might be convinced? Right now, I fully believe that the Democratic Party does best represent my interests, and does not work to stifle dissent in the same way that the Republican Party does. Your yelling that the two parties are equal moves me not one inch.
I rather think that the photo-op of a stern pair of liberals standing in the Rotunda, having just voted down this nonsense, and declaring how ridiculous it is would be exactly the sort of campaign they’d like to run and message they’d like to send.
Curiously and amusing, Harry Turtledove had his neo-Nazi character, Jake Featherston, use just this tactic when he became president of the CSA in his ‘Great War’ series.
I wonder if someone in Delay’s camp is a Turtledove guy?
Really? Do you think they want to spend all their time talking about gay marriage (or whatever BS the next “FMA” will be)? Do you think they would be given the opportunity to talk about the middle class squeeze, the effects of the Bush tax cuts, the war in Iraq or other such topics? Things such as these are often attempts to derail your opponents by choosing the message. I would prefer that they choose their own message in their own time, especially when they don’t need to be there voting on cloture.
I think they can talk about what they want to when they want to where they want to. The campaign press goes wherever they are. They had the opportunity to be seen doing the job that they were, after all, elected to do, and spin it into leadership, complete with the backdrop of the grand Congressional Rotunda and the whole nine yards. They could do as we have done on this board, and make it a message of civil liberty for all people. If I were they, I would be firing me some people.
To be fair, it seems like the entire point of the vote was specifically to fuck with Kerry and Edward’s campaign schedules, just like they did with the veterans vote they shifted around to screw Kerry. And, just like the Democrats did to Bob Dole. It wasn’t a serious vote, and heck, it wasn’t even a serious proceedural vote.
You know, while I sympathize with this, I still think there are real, objective differences, and a real move in the wrong direction that needs to be stemmed. I think Chait does a good job in this article explaining what they are:
Besides that, how do you think the press would report their statement? Would it contain the message that they wanted to talk about, or would it be about FMA?
Like I said, no one thought it would pass. And for the reasons I have already stated, I believe they missed an opportunity to make it backfire on the Republicans. In fact, in addition to what I already listed, they could have included a reference to the exact shenanigans that you mention. Consider these sound bites for the evening news, from the Rotunda:
Kerry: “John and I felt that it was important to take a stand. This administration has already done enough to trample our civil liberties, and we are drawing the line right here. Under my administration, Americans will have the security they seek without sacrificing the freedom they have always cherished.” [sup]1[/sup]
Edwards: “The Republicans scheduled this vote to exclude us from the process. But we will not be excluded. We will fight for the American people no matter what obstacles are in our way. Our vote today demonstrates that we mean what we say.”
[sup]1[/sup] It doesn’t matter whether it’s true. It’s just a campaign promise.
Oops. Looks like we passed in the night! Please see above. (The next day, they just continue the theme. We are at work for America. They can’t stop us with their dirty tricks. They’ve shown they are not uniters. And all the rest of the bullshit.)
Please see above. (The next day, they just continue the theme. We are at work for America. They can’t stop us with their dirty tricks. They’ve shown they are not uniters. And all the rest of the bullshit.)