> The other thing is that, as I’ve said, she’s never had a grade lower than an A.
> The thoughts of how she’ll react if she gets a C or worse for the first time 1000
> miles from home have been a concern. (My Aunt Lucy was a straight A student
> who flunked out her first quarter in college; that was in the 1930s- I remember
> her from the 1970s when she was standing in a highway with her dress over
> her head urinating in the road and recalling “Daddy bought me ox blood
> Rockports to sheathe my feet when I matriculated”- I really don’t want to see
> my niece pissing in the highway since it’s a lot busier now than it used to be. . .
Did you ever consider that maybe your aunt had problems that were way bigger than flunking out of college? How likely is it that her mental illness forty years after college would be caused by the trauma of flunking out of college? (Seriously, aren’t you aware that schizophrenia tends to first manifest itself somewhere around college age? That has nothing to do with the stress of college. It’s just a biological fact about mental illness.) In any case, someone who’s traumatized by discovering that after straight A’s in some Podunk high school they can only get C’s at Harvard isn’t really interested in studying anyway. They’re interested in showing off their superiority, and if that’s whay they want, they should go to some second-rate state university. I found that going from being the best at some Podunk high school to being among many other first-rate students was exhilarating, not scary.
In any case, your niece should be made aware that there are lots of very selective colleges outside of the Ivy League. May I suggest my alma mater, New College in Sarasota, Florida? At least in the top 100 in the U.S. for average SAT scores and high school grades and an interesting academic program.
Article from the Harvard Crimson: "In 1940, more Harvard students had an average grade of C- than any other GPA. By 1986, that C- had ballooned to a B+. Today more students receive As and Bs than ever before. "
That’s an interesting hypothesis that I too wondered about, but other mental disorders, other than schizophrenia, tend to manifest themselves at that time, including depression and (clinically debilitating) anxiety. Also, remember that eating disorders are nothing new and 1930s-era women probably faced considerable discrimination in the classroom, unless it was a women’s school.
Last, I’m sure most every student felt additional pressure to succeed, given the realities of the Depression.
Gee, I’m surprised I didn’t think of that during the several years I spent working with schizophrenics and doing scholarly research in the field, or over the fact that Lucy was one of 8 siblings to spend time in state hospitals. (Actually she wasn’t schizophrenic [schizoaffective maybe, but that’s such a vague umbrella term it could apply to many perfectly healthy people at times in their lives.) Though the fact that it’s genetic (more frequently through the father’s side in fact, a complete reversal of what was believed just a few years ago) does of course mean that my niece has the genes.
Really, get over yourself. While, to quote Alex P. Keaton, “Psychology is definitely my favorite of the false disciplines”, I daresay I’m beyond your ability to cyberpsychoanalyze via a message board. And the comment about not wanting to see my niece peeing in the highway is called “humor”- I don’t really anticipate it happening.
If she could make it into Harvard, I have no doubt she can make it through Harvard. I think it would be idiotic to pass up such an opportunity. While my only experience with Harvard was taking a summer course there, I did attend Northwestern University which does have its fair share of snobby elites. But you know what? For every privileged upper-class student, there was a kid from more humble working-class backgrounds. These institutions are not homogenous cliques solely made up of the sons and daughters of politicians and plutocrats. The top universities try very hard to maintain a varied student body and, for the most part, I believe they do a good job doing so.
The best part about being in such institutions is that you’re surrounded by the best of the best. And, if your niece is at all like me, it’s very inspiring. Sure, it’s something of a knock-down to go from top dog academically in high school to just another typical student at an elite university but, once you adjust, it’s incredible what you can learn not just from your teachers, but from your fellow students. If anything, the most valuable aspect of attending a school like Northwestern was the connections I made with other students.
I feel your fears are misplaced. If your niece truly wants to attend Harvard and Harvard accepts her, she definitely should go.
I think what a lot of responders to this thread haven’t considered is the fact that she says she wants to be a pharmacist, which we’ve been told isn’t exactly Harvard’s strongest undergraduate program. Why would she attend a school that doesn’t offer the program she’s interested in? Could it be because she’s being hugely pressured by Daddy, whose only concern is being able to tell his small-town friends, “My daughter is attending Harvard.” (That’s not to say that she couldn’t discover her true life’s passion while at Harvard and get that degree in Yiddish Lit and Byzantine folk dancing, which would surely put Daddy’s briefs in a bunch.)
It’s not like Sampiro doesn’t want her to receive an excellent educational and personal experience while in college. He’s just questioning the motives for choosing this one. I think he has legitmate concerns about the motivation for considering this particular school. I don’t think there’d be so much debate if this was about a different, less recognizable school.
My immediate thoughts upon reading this thread were along the lines of, “Why would she consider a school only because Daddy wants her to go?” and, “If she wants to follow in her parents’ footsteps and be a pharmacist, why aren’t her parents encouraging her to attend a school that actually offers a pharmacy program? Is his hard-on for having a Harvard graduate in the family THAT big?”
[Yes, I realize I just said all of the same things about three times. I ramble and repeat myself. A lot.]
It goes without saying that we all found SDMB one way or another.
Some people go to Harvard because they their parents, grandparents, ect. went to Harvard. George W. has twins; Jenna and Barbara. Barbara is a forth generation legacy. Jenna, could have been a fouth generation legacy, but went to the University of Austin instead. Someone in Texas or Alabama was admitted to Harvard because there was an open spot.
Harvard cannot be filled with only legacies because that would mean students would be admitted to Harvard only based on who they are, how wealthy their parents are and not based on what they have done.
There’s how the world works: John Kerry graduated from Harvard; Bill Clinton graduated from Yale. One was a Boston Bramin; the other, a Arkansas redneck. One suceeded to the Presidency; the other failed. Looking at both Bill Clinton and John Kerry as high school students, you would say that John Kerry has a greater chance of becoming President one day. You would be wrong.
As a Berkeley alum, I have to completely disagree. I got a fabulous education and, although the “you can’t get into classes” rumor was around when I was there, I never went without a class I needed to take - you’ve just got to stick it out until the drop course deadline, and you’re in when people drop. Frankly, I think going to a university with limited resources and a big bureaucracy helped me immensely in doing things on my own, without depending on the guidance of counselors or administrators. I also had to take initiative to get noticed by professors in big classes. I’m really glad I went to Berkeley (well, that was a surprise finding, wasn’t it? ).
If she wants to go to Harvard, what’s the problem? If she can take it, people will take a lot more notice of her Bachelor’s than they otherwise would, so good for her. If she can’t take it, she can always transfer, and maybe she needs to learn that she can’t take it. Either way, she’s learned and gained an advantage.
Shrug. It’s pretty common to change your mind about a major during your freshman (or sophomore or junior) year. I know I did, and so did most of my classmates. Originally, I wanted International Relations or Physics. Ended up loving computer science.
In the end, there’s a lot to be said for a Harvard degree. Regardless of whether the actual education is superior, the name on the sheepskin will open a lot of doors and is a pretty worthwhile investment.
What are you talking about? Kerry, Bush I and Bush II all graduated from Yale. Don’t you remember last fall, when people were commenting on both candidates being members of Skull and Bones? (Barbara is an honorary member, perhaps the only female to be officially associated with S&B.) Bush II went to Harvard Business School, but that was years later. Clinton went from Georgetown University to Oxford on his Rhodes Scholarship, and from there to Yale Law School. He was never within a stone’s throw of Harvard. And finally, I’m not sure what a Boston Brahmin is, but Kerry’s family was not particularly well-connected.
> Gee, I’m surprised I didn’t think of that during the several years I spent working
> with schizophrenics and doing scholarly research in the field, or over the fact
> that Lucy was one of 8 siblings to spend time in state hospitals. (Actually she
> wasn’t schizophrenic [schizoaffective maybe, but that’s such a vague umbrella
> term it could apply to many perfectly healthy people at times in their lives.)
> Though the fact that it’s genetic (more frequently through the father’s side in
> fact, a complete reversal of what was believed just a few years ago) does of
> course mean that my niece has the genes.
>
> Really, get over yourself. While, to quote Alex P. Keaton, “Psychology is
> definitely my favorite of the false disciplines”, I daresay I’m beyond your ability
> to cyberpsychoanalyze via a message board. And the comment about not
> wanting to see my niece peeing in the highway is called “humor”- I don’t really
> anticipate it happening.
Why did you bring up the story of your aunt flunking out of college and having a nervous breakdown if it was irrelevant to the situation you were talking about? Look, your reasons why your niece shouldn’t go to Harvard are getting more and more desperate. First it was because she might feel out of place there. Then it was because you thought she was being presurred by her father. Then it was because she might be under too much stress there and might have a nervous breakdown. Now it’s that she is genetically deposed to nervous breakdowns and Harvard might cause one.
First of all, if you thought that she has a genetic tendency to mental illness, you should have brought that up in the OP if you thought it was relevant. Second, it’s not relevant anyway. If your niece is likely to have a nervous breakdown, it doesn’t matter whether she goes to Harvard or spends the rest of her life locked up in an attic. Schizophrenia is a biological matter. If it happens, it happens.
I think the only relevant objection to her going to Harvard is, as other people have mentioned, the question of why she wants to major in pharmacy if she goes there. I’m concerned about whether that’s because of her father’s pressure far more than her choice of college. I’m beginning to think the best thing for her is to go to some first-rate college far away from home where she majors in something completely different than anything her parents are interested in.
An interesting story that uses some of the same keywords. It’s a Southern thing. And a touch of dark humor.
Read my other posts- I tend to “that’s another story” quite a bit.
Uh, no, they’ve remained pretty consistent. They are that I don’t know how she’ll handle being one of many gifted students instead of the class brain, that she’s only doing it to help her father get a status badge, how she’ll deal with the snobbery associated with an Ivy League school and how she’ll adjust to being 1,000 miles away from home when she’s always been sheltered. I’ve said repeatedly that the responses to this thread have ameliorated my concerns somewhat.
Speaking of keeping up with the other children, I’m sending a note home to your parents. I want to talk to them about putting you in a class where you’ll be much better able to keep up with everybody else…
I’ve no idea- she’s a bit younger than the usual time to tell it. The reason I brought up the genetic factor is because you did- I told a story about a great aunt flipping out and you said “Uh, dude, you like know that schizophrenia is like genetic and stuff don’t you…” and I’m like “yeah, condescencion well taken- although, you know that like aunts are like also like genetic relatives and stuff, yeah?”.
Again, my niece’s potential mental markers aren’t an issue. But the notion that schizophrenia is completely oblivious to surroundings is, if you’ll pardon me, stupid. I worked with them a long time- their surroundings most definitely serve as catalysts to decompensations and episodes.
I’m sorry, but again, the problem with schizophrenia is that it will interfere with an individual’s ability to function. So the solution to the possibility of schizophrenia from her genetic background is just to not even attempt a stressful environment like Harvard? Again, so that she can remain some queen of Podunk, Alabama?
Again and again and again- I’m not saying my niece is schizophrenic. There hasn’t been a schizophrenic episode in my family in months, so perhaps she missed the train- I was making an aside story about my crazy aunt whose breakdown was always blamed on failing college, a total aside. (In fact Lucy wasn’t schizophrenic but more chronic OCD and depressive; she was committed for life to an asylum by the town doctor, who was also her father, and there underwent a lobotomy and electroshock and hydrotherapy etc., so her problems were multiple and…
Anyway, divorce any notion of my niece being schizoaffective from what I’ve said with my apologies. To the best of my knowledge she’s well adjusted, just sheltered. And again, it’s not my call, which I’ve fully acknowledged, and this board has let me know what I wanted, which is that Ivy League stereotypes are as inaccurate as most stereotypes (i.e. it’s really not the Upsen Downs set).
Alright, I checked here is the facts: John Kerry graduated from Yale. Clinton graduated from Georgetown was a Rhodes scholar, and went to Yale Law School. Bill Clinton had no family connections that John Kerry had. John Kerry’s father married into theForbes family.
I’m trying to find a good example that will asuage the father’s fear’s that his daughter will be surrounded by “elites”. They are no different and no better than her.
).