Except that if the protests get out of hand it might cause undecided voters to vote for Bush, out of anger. That’s the last thing we want. Nothing is more important now than reuniting Crawford with its village idiot. Kerry may have many flaws, but he’s not Bush. And right now that’s the most important thing he has to offer.
Forgot to compliment you on the quote. It usually didn’t come out in his lyrics, but if you go back and read some of Morrison’s interviews, he was very revolutionary in his politics.
Thanks to those who were kind enough say they enjoyed the report! It really was an amazing day, and I feel privileged to have been there. Even with the sunburn and blistered feet (both of which are my own damn fault).
Re: the “machine gun” thing: LOL, okay, you got me, it may have been an m16 rifle. I admit that what I know about guns you could stuff in a thimble and still have room for Bush’s brain. 
My point is that peaceful protestors (and every indication was that this would be peaceful, despite the media/Republican pundits’ wet dreams to the contrary) should not be met by the same bigass guns with which one engages enemy combatants.
Sheeyit, even in the USSR’s bad old days, they’d just use water cannons!
(And … yeah. Sure, they were there to protect the protestors. That’s why I only saw them around Madison Square Garden, rather than the rest of the 40+ blocks of the march.)
Let me reassure you, the vaaaaast majority of people there were not dressed as penises. :rolleyes: I found the two who were, as well as the irreverent t-shirts/buttons/et al., funny and striking enough to mention. Believe me, on a sweltering summer day with little air and a slow-moving crowd, these flashes of humor were desperately needed! But by no means did they overwhelm the very serious message we were sending, nor did they diminish the passionate anger we felt. The signs I didn’t mention included: “Proud to be an American – But ashamed of our president!” “I am a betrayed veteran” “We stand with the Iraqi civilians” “Bush/Cheney: Warmonger/War Profiteer” and “My son died for Bush’s oil.” These went to the heart of our demonstration.
Some people can claim that this was a bunch of dilettantes or “hysterics” all they want if it makes them feel better or safer in their ideologies. Heck, I’m sure that’s what the rightwing radio and TV commentators will be saying. But I hope you’ll forgive me if I give more credence regarding the protestors’ motives and methodology to those of us who were actually there.
Let’s face it, there are Republicans who decided long before yesterday that no matter what happened, the protest would be spun negatively in order to fulfill a Bush-friendly agenda. With hundreds of thousands of likeminded voices raised against the administration, and only one minor “violent” incident (the dragon thingy that was set on fire) – an incident that could have been spurred on by one or two anarchist freaks or by undercover GOP partisans – this protest was a harsh blow to the GOP. Most important, it sent a powerful signal to the world that not all Americans back the Bush agenda. This will be vital if we are to regain international respect. President Kerry will help immeasurably too, of course.
Honestly, I feel sorry for those who may be so cynical and jaded that they can’t imagine a mass of people willing to sweat and scream and support one another for a cause. The truth was there to be seen for anyone watching on C-Span. Everywhere you looked, you saw families with young kids in strollers, seniors on canes and in wheelchairs, veterans, firefighters, teens, yuppies, hippies, SAHMs, goths, immigrants, New Yorkers, Mid-Westerners, blacks, whites, Asians, Hispanics, and more.
In other words, everywhere you looked, you saw Americans. Dismiss us at your peril.
Because some of us have been tear gassed for eating dinner in a restaurant on the other side of town from a peaceful protest.
Because some of us have stood still, listening to people speak over a loudspeaker who have been specifically told by other protesters not to even suggest violence, and been dispersed with tear gas and water cannon.
Because some of us have had to cower in an alley to avoid being hemmed in and beaten for participating in a march the extent of whose violence was the chanting of slogans.
And that was all before 9/11 gave security forces the World’s Biggest Excuse. It tends to imprint on you.
A general rule of thumb with protests in a democracy is it is a vehicle for the minority. The majority tends to not need protests.
The only time protests really matter is when you have a angry majority getting pissed at what the government is doing. And that hasn’t really happened since Vietnam.
I’m not sure really how to gauge the protests at the RNC. I mean since it wasn’t a clearly organized protest with a clear message it was basically just a Democratic show of force in a state that has been marked off as a Dem. victory in November ever since 2000.
Regarding the armed guards: I can basically guarantee you that they were not there to be used on the protesters if they become unruly. This is the last thing anyone wants to see happen (particularly the NG – anyone remember a little university named Kent State?). Protesters forget that, along with their protests, people are quite worried about terrorist attacks during such a large gathering. This would have been the reason for the national guard. Unruly protesters would have been handled by the NYPD, using a variety of non-lethal tactics for crowd dispersal, if necessary.
Um, that’s precisely what happened yesterday. Despite the shell of overconfidence that surrounds those who have practically sworn fealty to this administration, the majority of people in the U.S. and throughout the world think Bush is an absolutely abysmal and embarrassing president. His job approval rating is 39%, for pete’s sake – for an incumbent during a time of war, this is almost unheard of.
LOL, okay, am I getting whooshed? Not a clearly organized protest with a clear message?! Dude, this thing has been planned for nearly a year, and was extremely well organized (by the nonprofit group United for Peace and Justice, among others). The message was united, and as loud and clear as the Liberty Bell once was: George Bush Must Go. And thousands and thousands of people poured into NYC just for this protest, which received tons of national and worldwide coverage – that ain’t just a bunch of liberal New Yorkers.
As for it being solely a Democratic show of force … well, two things:
a) Half the country is filled with Democrats, so I hardly see why you’d dismiss a group representing half the country; and
b) Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but it wasn’t just Dems and progressives out there. There were also many Republicans among our number, including a large organized group of “Republicans for Kerry,” all of whom were cheered and warmly welcomed.
I know many pundits that you may be listening to dearly need to believe that this was some rag-tag group of marginalized, non-mainstream miscreants. But this fantasy, however comforting it may be, is sharply at odds with the facts.
OCC, I do hope you’re right. No one wanted a Kent State redux. But if there’s one thing I know about this administration, it’s that they refuse to learn from past tragedies. They’re arrogant enough to think they can get away with just about anything … and sadly, they have.
Fortunately the protest was so well organized, and all of its participants well prepared to stick to our strategy of peaceful behavior, that we never had to test your theory!
No, they’re a vehicle for the disenfranchised, which happened to the majority when Jeb rigged an election so his brother would win despite getting fewer votes than the competition.
Until the Electoral College is reformed (or eliminated) and Americans can directly elect their president, and the political system starts to represent more than two points of view, you can expect more protests from people on all sides of the issue.
Saturday:
It’s finally happening; we’ve been hearing about it for months, in the most dire of terms. RNC is on it’s way! RNC to take over New York. RNC prompts unheard of security measures. RNC to eat unassuming tourists!
Saturday afternoon, the normally bustling TKTS line is doing little business. Four lost-looking tourists mill in front of the ticket window, faced with an abundance of Broadway and off-Broadway shows to chose from. This being the week before Labor Day, of course, when no one vacations?
While Times Square isn’t empty, it is certainly lacking. Many of the businesses have prepared for the shortage of business, and thus it takes ten minutes for the Starbucks barista to make my iced coffee: black. I am unamused.
“Union Square’s a disaster area,” an older gentleman regales the waiting customers.
Not quite. Perhaps the masses are waiting for tomorrow’s big protest. The ones who have showed up are loud, angry, and out to make a buck.
“Ten dollars! You want a nice tee-shirt?”
Dirt brown with pink writing, it reads, “I miss Clinton”, with minuscule hearts circling the text.
“Uh, no thanks.”
The NYPD, who outnumber the protesters today in Union Square, stand back and chatter. The speakers, undaunted by the heat or half-interested crowds, go o n tirade after tirade about Iraqi healthcare and free speech and NYPD commie pigs. I’m not so impressed.
“You let them destroy each other,” one cop quips to me, obviously not seeing my newly purchased $2 pin that puts a red line through our President’s caricatured face. A verbal argument breaks out amongst the two ringleaders, who each think the other is getting too much attention. The tiny crowd dissipates. I ponder heading to Ground Zero, but put that off for later in the week. All is quiet here; relatively. I head home for a hot bath and my Netflix copy of “The Muppets Take Manhattan.”
Sunday
It’s almost unholy to be waking up at 9am. I hit the snooze three times. I blare “Avenue Q” while I’m getting dressed.
“IIIIIIIII wish you could meet my girlfriend, my girlfriend who lives in Caaanada…”
The walk across Central Park is lovely; New Yorkers are blading and biking and going about their business. It isn’t until I hit Broadway that I encounter anyone with a sign. But a doozy that first sign is.
“Yee-haw is NOT a foreign policy”
There are two delegates on our train, a nicely groomed couple in their mid-30s, clad in polo shirts with RNC sewn in the corner, RNC pins fastened on their collars. I notice the pointing and staring around 72nd. One heckler in a “Dykes for REAL bush” tee-shirt whispers to her friends. Mr. and Mrs. Delegate hold hands, backs straight against their seats. They are the only two left on the train as it embarks south of 14th.
“Hell, did you see those freaks?” a man behind me asks. He’s wearing a nose ring, and more earrings in his one ear than my sister owns altogether.
I smile. Freaks is a relative term these days.
I wish that I had better words to describe energy. The crowd at 14th Street exudes it. Signs and banners and tee-shirts are just the very fringe. Two men carry a cardboard coffin, draped with the American flag.
“We need volunteers to be pall bearers”, they scream. “Anyone?”
There are as many microphones as eager interviewees. “Why are you here?” seems to be the only question reporters know how to ask. The protestors thump with slogans; everything “Hey hey, ho ho, Bush and Cheney need to go” to “Fox news sucks.” The cops are less obtrusive today. They stand silently, helping people across the mobbed streets, giving directions. There is no laughing, no pointing, no heckling. It is, in a word, respectful. Still, I hear a lot of people grunt, “fucking coppers.”
“My bush would make a better president”
“Nuns for Kerry”
Some entire buildings are covered with banners. As we near MSG, the chants explode. “One two three four, we don’t want your fucking war.” There was a comradery amongst the protestors that was similar to the Pride parade, but without the bitchiness.
“Vietnam Vets against the war…AGAIN!”
“Texans for Kerry!” (They came from Texas to protest?)
The march emptied onto Union Square. A few college-aged guys held a mock puppet show. “Take that, Iraq!”, puppet Bush squealed, as he stuffed a cut-out of the country a tiny microwave.
Oh, and those t-shirts that were ten dollars yesterday?
“Get your tee-shirts, anti-Bush, only twenty bucks!”
Ah, capitalist hypocrisy.
I left the march then to attend the final FRINGE performance of “my show”, Africa & Plumbridge (coming soon to a Broadway theatre near you!). Much to my amusement, several people in the audience had come straight from the rally, still wearing their anti-Bush accessories. One man picked up his tickets wearing the Bush mask.
Freaks. Freaks, I tell you!
A friend and I had dinner in Midtown, and had the pleasure of being held up by the Vice President’s motorcade. I made my way east as the RNC delegates were lining up for their free (re: donated by Disney and the New York Times) Broadway shows. Two very young, very attractive men were approaching those fine citizens wearing their delegate pins, asking them if they were Republicans, and taking the opportunity to make out. With each other.
I thanked them for the laugh, and offered to donate to their cause.
And were they? I guess my point is that no one was gunned down by ‘the man’, and so assumptions about the military/police using immediate and deadly violence on peaceful protesters sounds like nothing but immaginary and anti-establishment propoganda.
And, matt, your point is taken. But, I still don’t think that the presence of the military at a large protest like that qualifies the US as a ‘police state’. That’s really all I was trying to say.
Unlike, say, nominating a pig for President?
Seriously, I agree with you that a lot of protests are poorly organized and lack impact. But not every protestor back in the day was 100% committed. There were grandstanders then, too.
That statement is nowhere to be found on http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/mtjhtml/mtjhome.html. I wonder what writing of his it’s from. It may be a paraphrase, of course.
Hardly every indication. It wasn’t pundits that caused me to fear the possibility of violence. It was reading stuff on indymedia and democratic underground. And your reference to “wet dreams” is not the product of a mature person.
I don’t give a rat’s ass about the rest of the world, but Bush got a large bounce from the convention. According to a TIME poll released today, among likely voters it’s Bush 52%, Kerry 41%. And the “overconfidence” you mention could be you projecting your own overconfidence.
The fantasy is your own. Anyone who’s listened to Al Gore and Ted Kennedy knows all too well this isn’t a fringe. That their hyperboles have been accepted as though they were facts is what has shocked and scared many people, including me.
Of course. It’s the evil Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy™. :rolleyes:
As noted above, only in your own mind.
ROFLMAO! Especially that last sentence!
We’re all Americans. Please remember that yourself.
Machine gun n: an automatic gun using small arms ammunition for rapid continuous firing.
-Webster’s New Collegiate.
The only difference I see is that an M-16 has more powerfull ammo to kill protesting citizens better than small arms.
No. Not with this administration.
Not when protesters here in my city weren’t allowed near the area where Bush was several months ago.
Free Speech my ass.
Even when we are informing on each other according to the Patriot Act?
When we exclude the votes of People of Color from being counted?
[quote]
Eonwe: And we’re not a police state for the very reason that despite our police and armed forces being, well, armed, they don’t use those arms on civilians unless under extreme duress.
{quote]Eonwe: I guess my point is that no one was gunned down by ‘the man’, and so assumptions about the military/police using immediate and deadly violence on peaceful protesters sounds like nothing but immaginary and anti-establishment propoganda.
Are you old enough to remember Kent State? Then the National Guard shot into the crowd and killed innocent students who had nothing to do with the demonstration which had turned into some rock throwing. That may seem like ancient history to some of you, but not to all of us. The victims were younger than I. Judging from the description of the participants in the NYC protests, some of them are certainly old enough to remember
Haven’t you watched videos of the clubbing of unarmed demonstrators at the 1968 Democratic Convention?
Do you remember the misdeeds done to Civil Rights protesters?
Imaginary? Propoganda?
I believe you.
Choie, I really appreciate your OP. I had wondered what it was like from the “inside.” Thank you and the others who took the time and trouble to express opinions – whether they be objections or support. For every step that you took, there were many of us wishing you well and wishing we could be there beside you.
I think that it is creepy that NYC violated the judge’s order to release over 400 protesters before the President’s arrival in town. If you are a citizen of NYC, your tax dollar will go toward paying the fine for the city’s refusal to follow that order.
Well, then, I guess we can safely remove the M-16 rifle from “machine gun” category since it does not have any sort of “rapid continuous fire” mode. It has single shot mode and burst mode which fires 3 bullets with each trigger pull. Some facts about the M16A2.
Thanks for helping us clear up that incorrect description of M-16s as machine guns!
And thank you.
Hear hear.
And I bet the protesters would have been glad of those machine-gun-toting soldiers had some terrorists started something. Remember that it’s easier to not use something you have than use something you do not have.
You mean New York City? It’s a bit late to start worrying about that, isn’t it?