My Oil Furnace Died

Factual Questions
1

Hello. This is my first post here as a member.

I am remodeling a house that I am going to move into in around 4-6 months. To cut a long story short, Saturday I went to the house, and the furnace was in a meltdown.

The oil company that services the furnace is coming tomarrow to look at it (But I am pretty sure it is byond repair). What it looks like happened is that it just would not turn off on its own. It kept running and super heated. When I got there it was so hot that one side of the furnace’s casing was starting to melt. The entire side was caved in almost an inch. There is a vent or something, that was on fire. The heat seemes to have boiled the water in one of the pipes near the furnace, and the pipe busted. The cellar was full of water (the furnace was raised above the floor. It was not in the water).

If I didn’t catch it in time, my house would have caught fire.

The furnace was serviced in October. They replaced one part, and told me that despite it being 15+ years old it was running almost as good as a new one of the same model.
Whatever safty devices that are suposed to be on the furnace faild, only 3 months after it was serviced and passed as running great. Is the company that serviced it responsible at all? It seems to me that they must have made some mistake.

Thank you.

2

whoa nelly!!! that is a scary melt down.

i do hope the company gives you a good reason for why it happened. check your service agreement with them. it should list what falls under the oil companies responsibility.

3

[QUOTE=rocking chair]
whoa nelly!!! that is a scary melt down.

i do hope the company gives you a good reason for why it happened. check your service agreement with them. it should list what falls under the oil companies responsibility.
[/QUOTE]

Very few homeowners have formal (or semi formal) service agreements. Even then, it is unlikely that the agreement spells out the responsibility of the oil vendor. It’s not necessary.

4

[QUOTE=The Man In Black]
Hello. This is my first post here as a member.

I am remodeling a house that I am going to move into in around 4-6 months. To cut a long story short, Saturday I went to the house, and the furnace was in a meltdown.

The oil company that services the furnace is coming tomarrow to look at it (But I am pretty sure it is byond repair). What it looks like happened is that it just would not turn off on its own. It kept running and super heated. When I got there it was so hot that one side of the furnace’s casing was starting to melt. The entire side was caved in almost an inch. There is a vent or something, that was on fire. The heat seemes to have boiled the water in one of the pipes near the furnace, and the pipe busted. The cellar was full of water (the furnace was raised above the floor. It was not in the water).

If I didn’t catch it in time, my house would have caught fire.

The furnace was serviced in October. They replaced one part, and told me that despite it being 15+ years old it was running almost as good as a new one of the same model.
Whatever safty devices that are suposed to be on the furnace faild, only 3 months after it was serviced and passed as running great. Is the company that serviced it responsible at all? It seems to me that they must have made some mistake.

Thank you.
[/QUOTE]

They may have made a mistake, but I wouldn’t assume that to be the case. Any mechanical piece of equipment may fail at any given time. (including your car, for example)

If this is insured, and you intend to make a claim, your insurance carrier may send an HVAC company to inspect the unit. If so, they may determine that your HVAC company made a mistake, at which point you can expect your insurance company to sue them to recover any money they pay you.

If this is not an insurance matter, you may hire another HVAC company to inspect the unit. Unless there is an egregious error----like disabling safeties for example----it will be very difficult (read: near impossible) to establish that the first HVAC company was at fault. (and the second company may be loathe to get in the middle)

Oil’s redeeming quality is that it burns hot. Other than that, it is expensive, dirty and dangerous. Now that you will be replacing the unit, you may consider a heat pump, with LP or electric back up heat. (assuming NG is not available)

5

If you have insurance on the house then it’s the insurance company’s problem to determine any possible negligence on the part of the inspecting company. If you don’t have insurance you probably need to contact an atty., but if the damage is relatively minor, that may not be justified. Was the part replaced associated w/ the control system?

6

[QUOTE=A.R. Cane]
If you have insurance on the house then it’s the insurance company’s problem to determine any possible negligence on the part of the inspecting company. If you don’t have insurance you probably need to contact an atty., but if the damage is relatively minor, that may not be justified. Was the part replaced associated w/ the control system?
[/QUOTE]

The part replaced was a pump.

And I have home owners insurance. But I have been told by people that a furance wouldn’t usually be covered my that.
And I was thinking that the company would most likley not be responsible. But I have never heard of this happening before. And I have been told that it can’t happen. So I was thinking they may be at fault.
Thank you all for your help.

7

As to insurance coverage, I’d guess that you’re in a gray area. The furnace itself may. or may not, be covered, but I’d think any other damage, from fire or flooding, should be covered. If it were me I’d submit a claim. If it was denied and the loss was substantial enough, I’d have an atty. take a look at the policy and the damage.
As has been mentioned previously, you might consider getting an opinion about the cause from a different HVAC company. They may be able to tell you if the original inspection should have detected a potential problem. All this depends largely on the amount of your loss and whether that amount justifies pursuing legal action.

8

[QUOTE=The Man In Black]
The part replaced was a pump.

And I have home owners insurance. But I have been told by people that a furance wouldn’t usually be covered my that.
And I was thinking that the company would most likley not be responsible. But I have never heard of this happening before. And I have been told that it can’t happen. So I was thinking they may be at fault.
Thank you all for your help.
[/QUOTE]

I’m an HVAC contractor and I can tell you that I’ve replaced several furnaces that experienced what yours did and they were reimbursed by insurance.

YMMV.

9

[QUOTE=the raindog]
Oil’s redeeming quality is that it burns hot. Other than that, it is expensive, dirty and dangerous. Now that you will be replacing the unit, you may consider a heat pump, with LP or electric back up heat. (assuming NG is not available)
[/QUOTE]

If I may hijack, here - what’s the difference in cost for a heat pump system, compared to a more traditional heating and cooling system?

Also, am I correct to believe that a heat pump still runs about 10% of the energy expenditures per unit of heat delivered to the house that a more traditional system runs?

10

[QUOTE=the raindog]
I’m an HVAC contractor and I can tell you that I’ve replaced several furnaces that experienced what yours did and they were reimbursed by insurance.

YMMV.
[/QUOTE]

I will need to check into it then. Thank you.

11

[QUOTE=the raindog]
I’m an HVAC contractor and I can tell you that I’ve replaced several furnaces that experienced what yours did…
[/QUOTE]

You make it sound like it’s almost common for oil furnaces to melt. Is something about the design of oil-fired furnaces inherently more dangerous than gas? I realize gas has a way of suddenly going BOOM! if there’s a leak, but do oil furnaces really have a tendency to melt?

12

[QUOTE=gotpasswords]
You make it sound like it’s almost common for oil furnaces to melt. Is something about the design of oil-fired furnaces inherently more dangerous than gas? I realize gas has a way of suddenly going BOOM! if there’s a leak, but do oil furnaces really have a tendency to melt?
[/QUOTE]

No they don’t have a tendency to melt.

Most modern furnaces are safe out of the box. Where they become unsafe is through poor set up/adjustment, operator error (read: homeowner) or lack of maintenance.

It is been my experience that oil furnaces are inherently less safe than gas furnaces. (which does not mean they are inherently unsafe, just that they are more likely to end up in an unsafe condition vis a vis gas)

A lot of that has to do with how the fuel is burned. Oil is pumped as a liquid where it is “atomized” as it passes through a nozzle. Sometimes not all of it burns and collects as a liquid in the bottom of the heat exchanger. That can often lead to BOOM! when it ignites.

It’s complicated and not interesting to write or read, but suffice it to say that Natural Gas is easier to distribute, burn and control versus Liquid Propane or [Liquid] Oil. Of the three, Oil is the hardest, dirtiest and most likely to have something get out of adjustment and/or fail. Out in the sticks, or in the NE, Oil is common.

The guys who work with it every day get used to it; and some are very good. For my part, I hate it and avoid it like the plague.

13

[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
If I may hijack, here - what’s the difference in cost for a heat pump system, compared to a more traditional heating and cooling system?

Also, am I correct to believe that a heat pump still runs about 10% of the energy expenditures per unit of heat delivered to the house that a more traditional system runs?
[/QUOTE]

Good question.

I will try to answer later this evening perhaps.

14

[QUOTE=gotpasswords]
You make it sound like it’s almost common for oil furnaces to melt. Is something about the design of oil-fired furnaces inherently more dangerous than gas? I realize gas has a way of suddenly going BOOM! if there’s a leak, but do oil furnaces really have a tendency to melt?
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for catching this.

I over-spoke by saying they were “dangerous.”

Part of that is my general unease with them and thorough dislike of them. And they are, in general, more prone to “melting” vis a vis gas.

A person with an oil furnace should have them serviced regularly. But they are not dangerous enough to warrant yanking them out.

15

[QUOTE=the raindog]
The guys who work with it every day get used to it; and some are very good. For my part, I hate it and avoid it like the plague.
[/QUOTE]

As an example of this, granted in a somewhat specialized application, nuke vessels have a number of back-up systems aboard, in case the plant scrams for some reason. There are diesels for electrical system back ups, and aboard the Virginia class cruisers, there is an auxiliary boiler for heating applications.

During the years I was aboard, no one successfully lit off the aux bomb. And at least one attempt resulted in an explosive failure. (No one was killed, just some of the bricks moved around a bit, and one or two were cracked.) And these were attempts being made by people who know the risks, some of them (The officers involved) having had experience on conventionally fired boilers in the past.) having had experience, and all of whom were following the tech manuals and approved procedures to the best of their ability.

Now, imagine how bad things can get when the operation of an oil fired burner is being done by someone who only looks at tech manuals after the furnace burns up, or blows up.

Again, this isn’t to say that the furnace design or operation is necessarily more dangerous - it is more susceptible to operator error causing dangerous conditions. Especially from a homeowner who has just a little knowledge.

16

[QUOTE=the raindog]

Most modern furnaces are safe out of the box. Where they become unsafe is through poor set up/adjustment, operator error (read: homeowner) or lack of maintenance.

It is been my experience that oil furnaces are inherently less safe than gas furnaces. (which does not mean they are inherently unsafe, just that they are more likely to end up in an unsafe condition vis a vis gas)

A lot of that has to do with how the fuel is burned. Oil is pumped as a liquid where it is “atomized” as it passes through a nozzle. Sometimes not all of it burns and collects as a liquid in the bottom of the heat exchanger. That can often lead to BOOM! when it ignites.

It’s complicated and not interesting to write or read, but suffice it to say that Natural Gas is easier to distribute, burn and control versus Liquid Propane or [Liquid] Oil. Of the three, Oil is the hardest, dirtiest and most likely to have something get out of adjustment and/or fail. Out in the sticks, or in the NE, Oil is common.

The guys who work with it every day get used to it; and some are very good. For my part, I hate it and avoid it like the plague.
[/QUOTE]

Seconded. You can (although not recommended) basically let a gas furnace go for years with only regular filter changes, and making sure there’s no buildup of crud on the shutters.

No so with oil burners. The nozzle wears as fluid is pushed through it, effectively increasing the GPH sprayed into the firebox, without a corresponding change at the airband, thereby making it run richer over time. Maximizing efficiency involves a careful balance of factors.

Like the raindog, I can and will do oil installs, but if I can sell you NG or LP, that’s the way to go, IMO. :wink:

17

[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
If I may hijack, here - what’s the difference in cost for a heat pump system, compared to a more traditional heating and cooling system?

Also, am I correct to believe that a heat pump still runs about 10% of the energy expenditures per unit of heat delivered to the house that a more traditional system runs?
[/QUOTE]

We need to qualify what type of heat pump system you’re asking about. The most common is air source, and their cost to operate is directly related to where you live, as that determines seasonal swings in average air temperature.

Next common is the well source heat pump, which relies on the constant subterranean temperature of ~50°F. A glycol mixture is circulated through a well and heat exchanger, using the ground water as a source of heat when it’s cold, and as a heat sink when it’s hot.

Least common, most expensive, and most efficient is the ground source heat pump, which buries refrigerant lines in protective media (to preclude acidic soil attack on copper lines) in holes bored into the earth. Like the well source, it uses the earth as a source or sink, but without the losses associated with a glycol based heat exchanger.

18

Considering that I live in the Northeast, I’m not sure that an air source heat pump would be very efficient. I was thinking either subterranean, or well.

I’d honestly never heard of an air source one, before. I’m sure that it could be made to work, but not all that efficiently for a heat source in winter.

19

Update. My insurance will cover it up to $3,900

20

That’s good news. I’m glad for you.

$3900 does seem a little low…Have you received quotes yet?

Is there room to negotiate that up if needed?