My school cut the study-abroad program to Spain because Spain supports terrorism.

[kanicbird]

No – Spain backed down so that they wouldn’t be as likely a target again. So if you had a child that got punched in the nose by a meaner kid on the playground, you would be upset if he/she chose to respond by avoiding future confrontations with the meaner kid? (as opposed to some form of retaliation?)

Not the same. Spain showed that it is willing to give in to terrorism instead of stand up to it. The terrorist now know it is possible to influnce elections in their favor by attack. Spain’s (meaning the people of Spain) actions have placed the free world in greater harm.

And just incase you didn’t know, many of the terrorist would like to see the end of woman’s and gay rights, it would be impossiable under their rule.

And isn’t this the country where 11 states recently voted to specifically deny gay rights, and some people tried to ammend the Constitution to limit gay rights?

Did you say voted? Voted, like a free people can do, and what the terrorist would not allow if they had their way.

[World_Eater]

@Monstre

Well, I’d say the damage is that their decision is based on politics (namely their own personal grudge regarding Spain’s response to the attack on their own country), and NOT based on what’s best educationally for their students. A trustee at a college or a university ought to be putting their school’s and students’ needs first, not politics (regardless of party affiliation).

Well said.

[World_Eater]

@Airman Doors

Nothing’s wrong with that. If she wants to go to Europe she can go to Europe. All she has to do is buy a boat or plane ticket and she can go virtually anywhere she wants. What’s the beef? That she can’t get college credits for the trip?

Well the OP doesn’t want to go there for vacation, so I would imagine college credit is the whole point.

So the administrator is an idiot. There are worse things.

A person having their education choices limited solely due to the politics of an idiot is a pretty bad thing.

[Estilicon]

@gobear

But Paul in Saudi is more or less right–right now, Spanish is an underclass language. In most of parts of the country that weren’t inherited from Spain or that lack a longstanding Spanish-speaking professional class, it’s what you use to communicate with gardeners and hotel maids. Sure there exceptions like California or Florida where speaking Spanish is part of the mainstream culture, but in much of this country, as in NoVa, Spanish is the language of the poor, the recent immigrant, and the disenfranchised. Eventually, Spanish will attain more of an equal status in America, something like the codominion of French and English in Canada, but there’s no need to use rolleyes smilies at an honest assessment of the status of Spanish right now in the US.

Of course you can learn spanish to comunicate with your gardener or maid. You could also use it to read “Cien años de Soledad” in the original, to listen to “El Amor Brujo” by de Falla to discover Neruda… etc… etc.
Spanish is the language of millions of people around the world not just of the “american underclass”.

[glee]

@kanicbird

Not the same. Spain showed that it is willing to give in to terrorism instead of stand up to it. The terrorist now know it is possible to influnce elections in their favor by attack. Spain’s (meaning the people of Spain) actions have placed the free world in greater harm.

And just incase you didn’t know, many of the terrorist would like to see the end of woman’s and gay rights, it would be impossiable under their rule.

Did you say voted? Voted, like a free people can do, and what the terrorist would not allow if they had their way.

Are you sure you’re on the right board? We are dedicated to ‘fighting ignorance’.

From your first post:

“it is not in the best interest of a free society that protects rights of the people such as womans and gay rights to support such a country.”

Perhaps you missed Matt_Mcl’s post (59):

“But as long as we’re at it, I might point out that at least Spain has equal rights for women in its constitution, unlike certain countries.”

It is laughable for you to describe the Spanish electorate as being ‘in favour of terrorism’. Do you not follow aurelian’s post (236)?:

“The vast majority of Spaniards were against the invasion of Iraq; former president Aznar ignored the protests and sided with the US, in the hopes of future political/ economic benefits. Before the Madrid attacks, the PSOE (those lousy leftists!) was already in the lead. Spain had the collective cojones to not tolerate a president that was more interested in realpolitik than serving as a representative to his people, and to not permit fear the degradation of human and civil rights out of fear.
To summarize: 90% or so of country supports Option A. President chooses Option B. People choose not to reelect him in favor of a candidate that supports Option A. How is this cowardice, again?”

It is arguable that invading Iraq without getting a UN resolution and based purely on crap intelligence, has driven more people to support terrorism and destroyed trust between democracies (of which Spain is one, in case you hadn’t noticed).

I suppose you haven’t noticed that Guantanamo Bay is a complete denial of human rights. Nor what damage it is doing to the reputation of the US abroad. The other day the BBC ran a program in which Guantanamo Bay torture techniques were used on innocent volunteers. After less than a week, most of them ‘confessed’ to imaginary crimes.

[Mighty_Girl]

Kanicbird, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps you are really stupid, as opposed to just ignorant, and that is not entirely your fault.

If what you know about what happened in Spain come from what you see on American TV it would explain why you are thouroughly misinformed. I have the chance and the abbility to watch Spanish TV, as well as knowing and having been in Spain after the attack, you do not have to take my words as gospel, it is merely an invitation to educate yourself before you continue to make an ass of yourself on these fora.

Spaniards were doubly pissed at their government, first for having dragged them to a war in which they had no desire to participate, and second (and apparently worse) for having lied to them inmediately after the attack (and in view of the pending election) pointing the finger at ETA. With this they wanted to deflect criticism over bringing to Spain the war that the Spaniards didn’t want to fight. Spaniards were pissed at the not-so-subtle effort of their own government to deceive them, going as far as using the public press to do so.

I understand that some people don’t mind being lied to. Spaniards, don’t seem to be that kind. The young people rallied to the polls, and the streets, and sent a clear message to the Spanish politicians: we won’t take BS! In the aftermath of the attack, instead of cowardly staying home to protect their collective asses from possible terrorist attacks, they massively voted. How is that not the best of democracy?

Besides, Spanish women have the same rights of any citizen, per the constitution. And furthermore, they are considering full-rights marriage for homosexuals. Not quite the repressive society that you try to paint.

You can decide to believe a lie, or you can decide to learn the truth. If you persist in spouting these stupid ideas of yours I shall conclude that you are not willfully ignorant, but merely stupid, and for that my friend there is no cure.

PS. My country also was against the war. Against our wishes the previous government dragged us there. We also left after Spain. You are free not to visit us, we won’t miss you.

[Gorsnak]

@kanicbird

Not the same. Spain showed that it is willing to give in to terrorism instead of stand up to it.

Considering that ETA hasn’t been handed an independent Basque homeland after decades of terrorist actions, this is just ignorant. I conclude that you don’t have the first clue about standing up to terrorism.

[Mighty_Girl]

@Gorsnak

Considering that ETA hasn’t been handed an independent Basque homeland after decades of terrorist actions, this is just ignorant. I conclude that you don’t have the first clue about standing up to terrorism.

Why you silly! Don’t you know that terrorism was invented by Osama Bin Laden?!

:rolleyes:

[kimera]

@Airman Doors

Nothing’s wrong with that. If she wants to go to Europe she can go to Europe. All she has to do is buy a boat or plane ticket and she can go virtually anywhere she wants. What’s the beef? That she can’t get college credits for the trip? That the college won’t subsidize the trip?

Uh, are you suggesting that I just buy plane tickets and fly anywhere in the world I want to go? That sounds incredibly stupid to me, not to mention dangerous and costly.

I am paying for my entire education, living expenses, etc myself while living in the city which has the highest rental rates in the country. I don’t have the money or time to random wander around strange places for no reason.

My whole point in going overseas is to study. Now, if I researched it enough, I might be able to find out how to apply for school and take care of all the other details overseas without going through a school, but that’s going to be very hard, especially since it is going to take me a few years to get anywhere close to a comfortable speaking level. It is much easier and a much more useful use of my time and money to do a transfer through my school.

I am annoyed because his whole reason for cancelling the program was politics. I don’t think it is right for a person elected to a school board to bring his personal feelings in conflict with what is best for the students. It’s the same way how they allow anti-abortion protesters and religious groups on campus when they aren’t legally allowed to be there but not any group that conflicts with his beliefs.

[Mr.Moto]

Well then, just contact another school, work through their study-abroad program, and then transfer the credits back.

As for your last, you do realize that anti-abortion protesters and religious groups have every right to be on campus and make their views known, don’t you? There is this pesky little thing called a First Amendment that comes into play there.

[Ravenman]

@kanicbird

Not the same. Spain showed that it is willing to give in to terrorism instead of stand up to it. The terrorist now know it is possible to influnce elections in their favor by attack. Spain’s (meaning the people of Spain) actions have placed the free world in greater harm.

You’ve been a member of the SDMB for nearly six years and you still spout such unbelievable bullshit? Talk about leading a horse to water.

[kimera]

@Mr. Moto

Well then, just contact another school, work through their study-abroad program, and then transfer the credits back.

I could do that. Or I could take my money and go to another school that has a more progressive view. I think I will do the latter.

As for your last, you do realize that anti-abortion protesters and religious groups have every right to be on campus and make their views known, don’t you? There is this pesky little thing called a First Amendment that comes into play there.

Actually, no they don’t. I don’t know how it works on other schools, but our main lawn thing is considered private property and they have to have a permit to be there. If they want to be on the parking lot, they can, but to be on the main lawn they need a permit.

[spectrum]

@kanicbird

Spain gave in to terrorism, it is not in the best interest of a free society that protects rights of the people such as womans and gay rights to support such a country.

My God, you’re a stupid human being.

It’s much better to be a gay Spaniard than it is to be a gay American. In Spain, gays are actual citizens.

And Spain is STILL FIGHTING TERRORISM in Afghanistan. Does one have to sign onto Bush’s Bullshit War to be “fighting terrorism”?

[Monstre]

@Airman Doors

Nothing’s wrong with that. If she wants to go to Europe she can go to Europe. All she has to do is buy a boat or plane ticket and she can go virtually anywhere she wants.

Sure she can. But note that the context of my comment was specifically in response to this statement from kanicbird:

“But as pointed out above Spain is not the only country that speaks Spanish. If your goal was to complain about not being able to visit a spanish speakign country, that is a crock of shit”

kanicbird was claiming that kimera was full of shit because her only complaint was wanting to be able to visit a spanish speaking country. Apparently reading the rest of the thread was too much effort for our avian friend, since kimera clearly expressed that her preference was the Spain trip previously offered by her school. Her complaint is not that she can’t visit a foreign country – sure, anybody can do that if they have the time and money. Her complaint is that they cancelled the program she wanted to sign up for.

So the administrator is an idiot. There are worse things.

Quite true, on both counts. And I’m sure the college is not required to offer any study-abroad programs at all. Although I think those are good programs and good educational opportunities. And they are probably valuable for attracting students to an institution in the first place – so it could end up being a bad business decision for the college as well.

As for the OP’s beef – if I were signed up for such a program (or was planning to in the following year, perhaps), and had gotten myself excited and pumped up for it, and then it were cancelled for what seemed like a personal grudge or unrelated political decision by the board of trustees, I’d be upset about it, too. It’s certainly not the end of kimera’s world, but it’s understandable that she’s unhappy about it.

In fact, I mentioned on page 1 that in high school I WAS signed up for an exchange student trip to Spain that was cancelled – although that one was over safety concerns. I was bummed out for a bit, but we found another exchange program that I was able to sign up with, so it worked out.

[Monstre]

@kanicbird

Not the same. Spain showed that it is willing to give in to terrorism instead of stand up to it.

And why exactly does this justify cancelling study-abroad programs to Spain, which are intended to benefit our own students and provide educational opportunities, often at lower cost to them that they wouldn’t be able to afford otherwise? Should we consider Spain a hostile now? Are they now part of the Axis of Evil?

If you goal is to further the terrorist POV of being against equal rights for women I think you deserve the place you put this post.

How exactly does a student going on a study program to Spain amount to furthering the terrorist POV or agenda?

[milroyj]

@World Eater

The damage, you moron, is that their decision is based on ignorance.

Well, you think it’s based on ignorance, but so what? How do propose we run things in the alternative? Decisions reached by democratic consenus are o.k., until they are in conflict with your viewpoint? Then they are “based on ignorance”?

Seems to me, the stategy of calling one’s political opponents “ignorant” didn’t work too well in the last election, but if that’s what you want to do, feel free to carry on.

[World_Eater]

@milroyj

Well, you think it’s based on ignorance, but so what? How do propose we run things in the alternative? Decisions reached by democratic consenus are o.k., until they are in conflict with your viewpoint? Then they are “based on ignorance”?

Do you agree with the decision the board made?

[milroyj]

@World Eater

Do you agree with the decision the board made?

No, I think it’s rather silly.

[World_Eater]

@milroyj

No, I think it’s rather silly.

Do you think the decision incorporates some form of ignorance? After all we know Spain doesn’t really support terrorism.

[milroyj]

@World Eater

Do you think the decision incorporates some form of ignorance? After all we know Spain doesn’t really support terrorism.

It’s their decision to make.