Everyone always says that you can’t do anything about the person’s drinking, that you just need to let go of the situation. What the fuck are you supposed to do when you live with that person? Fuck, at least if my father hit me I could pull the assault card on him, he’s got a clean record so he could probably just get rehab. As it is, since he’s a passive drunk and can’t get into rehab. But just because he doesn’t smack me around doesn’t mean watching my dad drink himself to death is very nice.
When you live with a drunk, if you are a minor and still in school, and it’s not so bad that you are in immediate, constant danger, you try to stick it out until you can finish school and move out on your own. If you’re an adult, you move out now. It sounds like you could use Al-Anon (Al-Ateen?), too, kushiel.
That or talk to someone about it. Maybe an intervention is in order? Extremely difficult, I’m sure, being you’re the kid. But something to think about. If the situation is detrimental to your life, you could even go to the extreme of asking for emancipation or living with a relative. Like anything else discussed here, if your dad wants to drink himself to death, there is woefully little you can actively do to stop him. You can only help yourself. I know it sounds cold, but I’m not feeling eloquent right now, so take it for what it’s worth.
Thanks for the advice, but I really don’t want to define myself as a “sister of an alcoholic” or spend time addressing that. This week was bad, and I’m using this place to vent, but I’ll recover quick enough. And I have a support network - including friends who have lived with alcoholics - and the people here (thanks to everyone who posted with stories and advice - both are helpful - its good to know I’m not alone and we are doing the right thing. And the recent recovery threads and “what makes an alcoholic threads” here have been read with interest and have been very informative - thanks to all the participants in those as well.). Al-anon isn’t going to tell me anything that hasn’t been said here - I can’t control her (and really don’t care to - controlling others is not my thing), and I have to let go (harder, but this is like watching your friends kid drink - she is my sister, but we aren’t close - its my parents and my other sister I feel for) - and those lessons I learned with my first husband. Plus, I don’t have any more time to dedicate to my sister’s choices - I have my own children to raise, my own job to do, my own friends. I’m moving on with my life - I don’t think Al-Anon is a good place for me to invest time if I’m moving on.
trublmakr - its only been four months that we’ve been involved. I suspect the abuse goes back much farther (she was the only one of us that drank in high school and she was a heavy drinker in college - I got drunk once in college, puked, and have never gotten that drunk again - in fact, I’ve only gotten “more than tipsy” twice since then.) Before then, she was functional and - while we all knew she was a heavier drinker than any of us - we didn’t tag her as an alcoholic.
IMO, “cutting someone loose” is not so much time dependent as it is situation dependent. IOW, why wait? If she has already depleted bank accounts etc–what else does it take to learn this lesson?
I feel for your mom–this must be killing her. And I am irked by your sister’s smearing of the dead, who cannot defend themselves–how convenient for her. Grrr. It makes me NOT believe the molestation stories–I hope she truly wasn’t molested and it’s just the liquor talking.
Liquor never seems to have anything good or positive or supportive to say, unfortunately.
Good luck with this. I had to cut out a sister (not due to ETOH*, but other reasons) and it is indeed a grieving process. It can be hard-she shared your childhood, even if she wasn’t always home for Christmas.
*you all probably already know this, but ETOH=alcohol.
I didn’t. What does ETOH actually stand for?
Agreed. Man, I thought therapists like that were all debunked in the early 90’s and had shut up for good.
If you’d like to investigate False Memory Syndrome, (or RMT, recovered Memory Syndrome) the Myth of Memory Repression, and the Role of Therapists in Creating False Memories, here’s a good starting link.
You are very strong and seem to have thought this through well. No one can violate your boundaries unless you let them.
{b]Featherlou** has very sound advice, I think.
I wish you continued courage.
Dunno-ask a chemist. Something ethanol–and doesn’t “OH” signify an alcohol?
It’s been 20+ years since chemistry for me, sorry.
It’s just shorthand for ethanol, so you don’t have to write CH3-CH2-OH out. “ET” stand for “ethane”, which is a two-carbon chain.
By the way, I should be clear, she has depleted our savings accounts to the level we feel comfortable depleting them (i.e. I bought a few plane tickets and some nights in a hotel, but I still have plenty of savings). In fact, she just recently lost her (highly compensated) job, and she has savings. So things aren’t “she’s out on the street, selling her body for Lysterine” at this point.
My parents went out last night to drag her back and drop her into a more sensible inpatient hospital program - at her request. They are paying for this from HER checking account (we figure, why not, its her responsibility - and she will either kick this, or she’ll spend all the money on wine - we might as well use it to help). My role was limited to heading up to their house to clean out the liquor cabinet (and the Nyquil, vanilla extract, Listerine - and while I was at it, anything that looked like it could be abused from the medicine cabinet (two year old Darvocet) in case she has to stay there for a few days before the center has a bed for her.
I’m not convinced they are doing the right thing - she is asking for help, but I don’t know if she is being manipulative. But I can’t say I wouldn’t do the same thing if she were my daughter.
And that’s the rub–it’s damned hard to turn your back on offspring. I hope I never am faced with that.
I can’t imagine not having vanilla in the house, but so be it, I guess. (we need a “that’s a shame” smiley)
I know it’s hard, and you do have to be tough sometimes, but don’t give up. Sometimes you have to search before you find the right course.
My grandfather was a hard core drunk for many years, and finally quit after something like 15+ years of marriage and who knows how long drinking before that. He finally quit because his doctor told him if he didn’t straighten up, he’d die before his youngest daughters graduated high school.
I have a 2nd cousin who was also a hard core drunk well into his adult years, when he finally was confronted by his dad and my dad and (after a private discussion with my dad where my dad said he wasn’t buying all the excuses and bullshit and he’d better take this opportunity before he dies a drunk and a failure) agreed to go to rehab. One big regret on that side of the family is that his father did not live to see his son become a sober, successful business owner and father.
I myself have had issues with drugs and alcohol. It took until I was 31 years old to be diagnosed with bipolar disorder and get treatment that has allowed me to stop self-medicating, whioch I had been doing since the age of 13.
So don’t give up hope that things will change. My mother highly recommends Al-Anon, by the way.
I will admit that, although I suspect my sister is not above drinking vanilla extract, I was removing from the house more to make a point to my mother.
I went to work and told one of the guys this. He said, “did you take the perfume, too?” I said I didn’t. He had friends at his cabin for poker and fishing. Ran out of beer and woke up to find one of the guys drinking aftershave. Kicked him out then and there and never saw him again.
Had I realized this when I went out, I would have left the Chivas - cheaper than drinking the Obsession.
Now that sounds like good news to me. Maybe they can deprogram her from the “recovered memory” trash.
I know that it’s hard to have any sympathy or compassion when someone is sucking the life and heart out of those that you are really close to. No matter how manipulative she may be, it’s possible that your sister is to the point where she can’t do anything else without dying.
Did you happen to catch Dr. Phil Wed. Mar 22, Dangerosa? He had a woman on there who reminded me of the situation with your sister - she is, Dr. Phil believed, a couple of days away from dying of alcoholism at 40. It was by no means a pretty sight. She would do anything for a drink, and I do mean anything. Lying, cheating, stealing, manipulating, making deals with the local liquor merchants (sex for beer, etc.), all in a day’s work for her. If someone brought her food and didn’t open it, she would return it to the store and buy alcohol with the money.
I think you should request a copy of the show and make your sister watch it, so she can see where she’s going if she doesn’t find a different way.
Setting your own personal boundaries during this insane time of your sister’s life is vital for your own survival and I am very proud of you for doing so. By your gentle example, mayhap your sister and mom will follow, thus setting up a wall around your sister that states quietly, " We are here for you, yet we will not tolerate your drunken behavior or shit on us anymore. You created the problem, you need to fix it."
Her behavior is suddenly controlling the family in a very negative way. I cannot beleive this is the first time this has happened.
You line about, " I cannot speak to you when you are drunk come back to me when you are sober." is brilliant, *just brilliant. * It is setting your sister down to the level of a irrational teen and giving her a chance to get her shit together and come back to you as an adult.
I just attended a parental conference last night by a PhD named Jim Fay, who wrote a buttload of books based on Love and Logic. One of the many books
But, the gist of the Love and Logic method with your kids is to make them think about their behavior . Instead of giving them the lecture (that no one ever hears) come up with a couple of lines that you repeat and repeat until the child ( or adult) get it.
“Feel free to go and play as soon as you finish your homework.”
" I’ll start (talking) as soon as I feel you are with me."
" Feel free to do anythign that doesn’t cause a problem for anyone else."
“I loan money to those who have collateral.”
“I’ll listen as soon as your voice is as calm as mine.”
“Love you to much to argue.”
It is mostly for parenting and classroom, but it may be worth a look from your library for alternatives to the blah blah blah lectures that are not being listened too. The less you say to her, the more she will think. That is what you really want to do, is to get her brain in gear and think about her behavior instead of focusing on how The Man is Keeping her Down and *None Of It Is Ever My Fault !!!111!! *and the ever popular best seller ** *Who Will Rescue Me Now From The Pile Of Shit That I Crapped For Myself With My Own Irresponsible Behavoir And Flung Myself Head first Into Said Steaming Pile? Waaaaaaaah! * **
Wishing you some form of peace during this time period.
She is now hospitalized. She seems to be open to the idea that the images she has are not real memories (I haven’t talked to her from my initial conversation where I simply pointed out that memories are simple to implant in a therapy situation and difficult to tell true ones from false ones - which she seemed to accept -, but my mother and sister have “implanted” that they are “implanted” and she seems to accept that MAY be the case (there isn’t a wail of “NO, I KNOW THESE ARE TRUE…YOU ARE ALL IN DENIAL…”) I’m not sure if allowing her to be a “therapy survivior/victim” will be more positive for her than her current world view as an “abuse survivior/victim” but at least if she is blaming someone who did her actual harm.
I have a letter of complaint written to the licensing agency for advice given to me during family therapy that I felt was unethical and unprofessional to give (basically, someone who knew me only through my sister recommending intensive RMT - provided by them, of course.)
Dangerosa, I think I have a Skeptical Inquirer article on recovered memories somewhere around the apartment. If you’re interested, send an e-mail to the address in my profile, and I’ll send it to you.
There’s not much I can do to help, except to offer you another shoulder to lean on and wish you luck.
CJ
Thanks, I actually read that article (or another one - I think SI has done a few) when it first came out - the original is in the basement and I found it on line - the recovered memory thing has always been an interest of mine.
She is actually NOT in the hospital - they didn’t admit her and will treat her outpatient. She is staying with my sister and her husband - they are both RNs - so the hopital felt like she could be properly cared for at home. Her intake was an hour and a half - she said her entire time at her rehab center she never had an hour and a half of therapist/psychologist time to herself - it was almost all group.
She now believes that she has confounded the memories of the women she was in group with (who MAY have had child sexual abuse) with her own - the problem of group therapy work is that shared memories often get taken on by other group members.