My son breaks neighbor's window (golfing) & then lies about it....and now, a survey.

We tried to use natural consequences whenever we could. As I see it you have three different things going on that need addressing. Each of them different so just saying you’re on restriction doesn’t make it clear enough that specific misdeeds have specific consequences.

So for example at our house, in addition to the sincere apology already given; consequence for breaking the window is working off the cost of the repair.

The consequence of the disobedience would be losing golfing privledges for a period of time; perhaps the next couple of outings. The length of time would depend on how much he was getting to play before his indescretion. If he only golfs once every two weeks then removing golf for two weeks is ineffective. He needs to be restricted long enough to “miss” it. When our boy was 8 he was taking lessons on Thursday afternoons and getting to golf on saturday. I would have forbidden lesson and golfing for two weeks. Particularly since you mentioned that you spoke to him about it and required that he use wiffle balls when playing in the yard several times.

At our house lying is worse than whatever you felt you needed to lie about. So discipline for the indescretion and the lying are separate and lying is more severe.

After restriction was over for the indescretion, we would have a discussion about how it is much easier to keep a trust than it is to regain trust once it has been lost. I would explain that while he is now off restriction for the disobedience, he has shown that he cannot be trusted to follow house rules with regards to wiffle balls when playing in the yard yet. I would remind him that he was warned several times and then explain that he would not be permitted “possession” of his golfing things until he could regain our trust. He would have to come to a parent and ask permission for access to them. Meaning in effect that he could not play golf whenever he wanted without getting permission. He would only get to play in the yard when a parent was around in see that he was using wiffle balls since he hadn’t yet demonstrated the maturity to be obedient in this one specific area.

I would not be wishy washy about this and I would be certain that he could not be tempted (since he has demonstrated he can’t be trusted when it comes to his passion for golf) by putting the clubs, shoes and balls in the truck of my car so he really had no chance to disobey. The first time he asked for his clubs to play in the yard, I would grant the request and remind him “wiffle balls only”. Next time I would grant the request and not remind him, but check on him after he got started, commenting with as soft a look on my face as I could and saying something like, “just checking to be sure you remembered to use the wiffle balls”. Next time I would check without comment. At some point we’d have another discussion about how it is much easier to keep a trust than it is to regain trust once it has been lost.

I would not have restricted him from all activities. IMO, that invites boredom and bored kids are more likely to get into much more serious trouble than golfing mishaps.

It sounds like a lot of work to break it down and address each thing separately, but it really has been remarkably effective for us. Our boys were great kids who made some stupid mistakes and occasionally misbehaved or disobeyed. We emphasize trustworthiness though and I knew (after the first teaching incidents) that I could trust them.

Our oldest had this mastered by about 5 and would come clean rather than lie. This served him very well when he was in middle school and he was accused of something he didn’t do. When confronted by a parent about his behaviour, I told her that I would look in to it and deal with it appropriately. After he and I talked privately, I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that he hadn’t done what he’d been accused of and the other child was trying to save his butt by blaming someone else. As the big face to face meeting with those involve played out I was able to stand by my son and by his truthful and full account of what had happened, ask the correct questions to expose the other young persons lie. Sadly, this boy continued to lie to his mother at home right up until the meeting. Even at the beginning of the meeting with his mother sitting right there he made a feeble attempt. As the meeting continued his mother kept turning to him and saying is this true? Are you sure? I did not have to do that, I knew I had the whole truth from our private discussion at the house, where I had reminded him that the truth was going to come out, better that I know now and be angry, than find out later in public with a nasty surprise. As the meeting went on, the other boys story fell apart and it was clear which young man was being truthful. Interestingly enough, my son was not blameless. He had done something that needed to be corrected and apologized for (and he knew it), but he had not done what he was accused of. Since he came clean about what he had done, we were able to discuss it and suggest alternatives for what he should have done and what he might do, if a similiar social situation ever occured.

I hope that whatever you decide works for you so and corrects your son’s behavior so that you can trust him again and he can enjoy his passion for golf.

Sorry. I opened the thread on my lunch hour and then wrote my post intermittently during the afternoon, so I didn’t see your post until now. I agree with Snickers, your decisions seem fine.

However, I think the breaking the window is separate from the disobedience. Consequence for breaking a neighbors window accidentally is having to repay the cost. I do not think that should be tied to how long he is restricted for his disobedience to the wiffle ball in the backyard rule.

To me, the consequence of the lying is the loss of your trust and so the “locking up the clubs” thing makes since as long as you have the conversation about the value of being honest and trustworthy and give him the chance to learn from this mature and earn your trust back. You’re trying to raise someone who can monitor his own behavior, if you forever lock up the clubs he’s no chance to demonstrate his improvement to you or himself.

The end result is that you want him to understand he messed up and why, and learn to do better, and end up feeling good about himself. “Ok, I messed up, but I apologized, I fixed the window and made as right as I could and now that I’ve lost and regained my parents trust and been forgiven, I’ll not make that mistake again.”

Dear Abby,
(I always wanted to start a post like that! :smiley: )

Your post rings of both wisdom and experience. As a parent of a two year old boy, I am storing advice and wisdom such as yours for future use, and wanted to thank you for writing. You helped futher refine and direct my thinking on this matter.

I had already decided that lying about an offence was worse than the offence, and that punishement for the offence itself should be as much as possible tied to fixing the damage done as well as apologising to agreived parties.

Your point that trust is easier kept than re-earned is a good one. I will keep it in mind, as well as the implementation of the manner in which it is re-earned.

Welby,

Some great ideas. I will also remember them and shamelessly plagiarise them when the time comes. Perhaps little trupa will one day write a paper on the influence of Samuel Pepys on the Royal Navy. :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeticus Rex,

If you’re also a golfer, then let me congratulate you on successfully encouraging your son into the sport. My Dad was effectively taken from me by a stroke when I was 16. He was an incredibly wise man, with a very varied and colourfull life. I loved/love him dearly. Of the memories I have of my time with him, few are fonder than the times we would play 18 holes together late on Sunday afternoons. We would tee-off around 3:30 or so, when all the serious players were already in the club-house, and enjoy a leisurely round before dinner with Mom. Golfing allowed us to spend a lot of good time together, and offered many opportunities to talk about what otherwise would have been awkward / embarassing topics for a 14 - 15 year old boy with his dad, in a really comfortable way, walking from shot to shot. Even if I never developed into a good golfer (breaking 100 is still a big deal today) I will forever treasure those moments. I wish you & your son many, many similar ones.

PS. You may wish, as a future gift for the little rascal, to consider a practice net so he can hit real balls in your yard. Just remember to use a mat as well, so you don’t loose all your lawn. :wink:

Wow.

Snickers, it was one side of a double pane window…about 3’x1.5’…I am guessing about $50 or less for the repair, $75-$100 for a replacement. But if it becomes an outlandish figure, I might have him pay a percentage of it and consider it paid in full when he reaches that adjustment.

Abby, great post about re-earning trust. I will try to work some of your wisdom into the process of getting trust re-established with my son again.

trupa, I remember golfing (actually, it was just knocking the ball 10 yards at a time with a beat-up 6 iron) with my mom back when I was 4 or 5. I then started golfing with my grandpa, step-dad and uncle when I was at least 10. I was never great at it, but it was always a blast to play with them. By the time I was 16, I would golf with my friends as an excuse to drink beer in private with my friends but we got a little better at golfing in the process. I’ve golfed with friends, co-workers (when I worked as a forklift driver at wholesale warehouse, we were done working at around 1 or 2pm, and then hit the par 3 executive course only 1/2 mile away), my brother, my in-laws throughout the years and now with my 16 year old and my 8 year old. My 8yo really has taken golf seriously, whereas my 16yo likes to on occasion. The last time we went was just 3 weeks ago…in Palm Desert…a nice little executive course in an RV park…$18 for 18 holes w/cart. My 8yo son, my mom, and my step-dad and I had a blast that day…on the way home, he said that was the best day he ever had in his whole entire life. I agreed with him.

Golf has played an important part of my life…and will continue to do so. I’ve only broken 100 twice in my lifetime on legitimate par 72s, but that never deters me from looking forward to the next golf outing.

Well, I gotta get going and tell him what I have decided.

Thank you all…Again, Dopers never fail to amaze me.

Please do, Lord knows I stole them from my dad, and he from his.

All of my cousins (I have nineteen of them) were raised this way. I think that it heavily influenced our career choices. In the mix of cousins there are 3 school teachers and 3 librarians. Four more are striving for doctorates in various disciplines. I myself am beginning work towards a degree in history, with the eventual goal of teaching after I retire from active money making and want a break.

Of my five uncles and my dad, three are retired military and are teaching in either public school or university and one tutors children in an afterschool program.

I guess it’s safe to say that even as we were being punished, we learned to love learning for learning’s sake. Most of us anyway.

When I was a kid, the brakes on my bike were too stiff for me to use. Eventually I ended up crashing into a parked car and causing some denting. I went and told my parents, who found the owner of the car and paid the bill. (£100). I didn’t get punished though, as I was honest.

I think lieing was the most serious “offense”. And deserves the most punishment.