My son breaks neighbor's window (golfing) & then lies about it....and now, a survey.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Yesterday, my 8 year old who really loves to golf, decided to hit a few balls from the backyard. I have told him not to use the real golf balls and instead, use the whiffle golf balls - I’ve told him this many times. I have caught and warned him on two other occasions since last summer to stop hitting the real golf balls, since he’s been taking lessons from a kid’s program at a local golf course and has been hitting the ball longer distances, therefore he should only hit the whiffle balls.

Well, when I got home from taking my oldest son to the mall, my wife (who was doing yardwork in the front yard) told me that another neighbor told her that the neighbor in question had just got a window broken and had discovered a golf ball nearby her broken window. My wife asked my son if he had been hitting balls again and he denied 3 or 4 times breaking the window and then admitted to it minutes later in the house (away from the mutual neighbor). I asked him why he used the real balls and he just said, “I really wanted to golf so badly, and the whiffle balls aren’t real golf balls!”. Me:“No kidding, that’s why there’s a broken window now. Let’s go settle up with the neighbors and you must think of an apology by the time we get there.” He had tears the whole time until we got there, but that was to be expected.

The neighbors were great considering the situation at hand. I’m just glad that neither husband or wife (neighbor) was injured directly from the golf ball or indirectly from the glass, although the wife was only 5 feet from the window breaking when it happened. My son did give a sincere apology and they gladly accepted. I asked them to get an estimate and repair and send me the bill.

Now, my survey. Restriction is definite for my son. Breaking a window and it’s monetary value to replace it is NOT how I will base the length of this restriction. Ignoring my previous warnings and directions to not use real golf balls in our back yard is the first offense. Lying about not doing it is the second offense. At first, I think lying about it is worse than ignoring my warnings, but ignoring direct and clear orders not to use the real balls is right up there. I was thinking of different lengths of restriction for both and the sum of those two lengths of time will be the total length of time for the restriction. I want to teach him that this was two offenses, not just one offense together. From this, I will tell him that if you break a window by ignoring me, you’re better off just admitting that you did it and would have had a lesser restriction. I know what things I will restrict him from…but I’m not totally sure which offense carries a heavier (or even) restriction, or for that matter, how long each should be. I have a general idea, but I want my fellow Doper’s input to see if I’m in the right ball park…er, so to speak.

So please, mention whether or not if you have kids or if you were in my kid’s shoes (at some point in your life) and mom and dad restricted you. How long for each and why? Thanks in advance for any replies.

2

It’s difficult to make generalisations, but two offenses probably deserve two penalties. The window part is pretty bad. It’s pretty easy to understand that that is wrong even if you’re an 8yo. That bit deserves whatever your standard punishment is (grounding/no TV/extra chores etc.).
The lying part is more difficult. The kid did admit what he had done (eventually). Mybe the second punishment should be one that your kid thinks up. Talk to him and see if he understands why lying to your wife and neighbour was wrong and why admitting to the truth later was a good thing. If he understands that,and is responsible about it, then hopefully, he can come up with something that is appropriate (maybe missing out on those golf lessons for a few weeks, or working in the neigbours yard for a weekend or two).

3

Maybe for the window part, he can do hard labor in order to work off the cost of repairing it (even if it’s in the indirect way of compensating you). The lying thing, I don’t know. Maybe for that you could use the restriction part.

My brother did a similar thing when he was about 12. Our neighbors had, for months, been painstakingly building a glass greenhouse in their backyard. Seriously, the day after it was done, my brother decided to go out in the backyard and hit golf balls. Sure enough, one landed right on the roof of the thing. You couldn’t have scripted it better. The golf ball went right through the glass, leaving a little golf ball-sized hole. Then, seconds later, all you heard was this tinkle, tinkle, tinkle as the whole roof of the greenhouse shattered and fell to the ground. It was hysterical (to me at least). My brother, scared to death, ran inside and grabbed his Tootsie Roll bank, full of nickels and quarters, and presented it to our dumbstruck neighbor. I have no idea what his ultimate punishment was, but his little sister (me) has used it as teasing fodder for a couple decades now.

4

I’m not so sure about this. How clever is the kid? My parents did this to me once, and I was able to dupe them, and turn it around in my favor.

5

I’d make the lying penalty twice that of the offense. The lesson you want to teach him is that coming clean is better than lying. This will do it.

6

Breaking the window: hard labor until he’s paid you off.

Ignoring your warnings: 1 week

Lying: 2 weeks

Three weeks of no fun whatsoever and working off the cost of the window seems fair. Three weeks is like 5 months on Kid Standard Time, and I doubt you’ll ever have lying issues again.

Yes, he confessed. That’s good; it’s not like this kid is some sociopath that is so good at lying that he believes his own lies :wink: However the point you seem to want to make is that he’d be better off if he admitted his wrongdoing IMMEDIATELY, which he didn’t. You could tell him something like “you can always tell me if you do something wrong, no matter how bad it is, and I’ll always love you. We have consequences when we do wrong things, though, so telling me isn’t going to get you off the hook. However, if you admit to it right away, the consequences I impose will be a lot less severe than if you lie to me.”

I’d be more upset about the lying. And given that he’s 8, I think it’s safe to assume that he knows lying is wrong, so he knew better.

And I don’t believe in this “pick your punishment” stuff. That’s not how the real world operates. It’s not like if you get caught speeding you get to bargain with the cop over what your punishment is going to be. :slight_smile:

7

I guess corporal punishment isn’t an option. I would have received at least 3 swats on my backside per offense and a stern lecture. Truthfully, I preferred the swats to a protracted punishment. I knew I had done wrong and deserved to be punished, the swats certainly made me feel punished, and it was over quickly and we moved on. YMMV. That was then, this is now. (Why in my day, all we had were wood-burning golf balls :slight_smile: )

Another thing my Dad did was to use these little incidents as learning opportunities. I learned how to replace a broken window after a slingshot mishap and my older brother learned how to repair sheetrock following a wrestling contest with my younger brother.

Back to the OP. As I see it, there are 3 issues; Disobeying a direct order, breaking the neighbor’s window, and then lying about it. The first and last deserve some form of punishment, whether it be no dessert for a week, keelhauling or something in between at your discretion.
But for breaking the window, your son needs to repay the neighbor (or you) somehow, not as a punishment, but to understand that when you damage someone else’s property you have to pay for what you have damaged, even if it was an accident.
BTW, I think you’ve handled this incident very well so far.

And I wasn’t really able to spank my own kids in similar situations. I must be a softie.

8

ooooooh, c3, that story is priceless! i love the way he ran over with his bank immediatly.

for sure you should let him twist in the wind a bit. the old “we are very disappointed in you” method, mum and i will discuss this and get back to you thing.

there are three very different offences, 1. using a real golf ball, 2. breaking a window, and 3. not 'fessing up right away.

  1. perhaps no golf practice for a week or so. playing golf is a priv. not a right. you have to play by the rules in order to play the game.

  2. work either at your house or the neighbour’s. he could sweep the walk or some such at the neighbour’s.

  3. most serious, a rather stern talk from both parents and 1 week of some sort of restriction per denial.

9

When I was a kid, corporal punishment was option 1a, with mandatory restriction (1b). The hard, stinging swats I got from a 18"x2"x1/2" paddle would have easily been labeled as child abuse these days, especially when the smaller infractions got 5 swats, 10 swats for breaking stuff and one was 25 for lying…note: “once”.

Some of you also advocate that my son pays for the window also…I will consider that once I see the bill. Doubling the time for lying was something I was thinking of doing too.

He’s a great and loving kid and when I take him golfing (just him and me), he’s on top of the world and he let’s me know it…so it’s gonna hurt me telling him what he’ll be restricted from.

Anyways, I like all the responses so far and keep them coming! He’s been asking me what his punishment his gonna be, and so far I said he’s restricted from any golf activity, including video and computer games (this will really hurt since his favorite game is Tiger Woods Golf 2004). I told him it’s open ended until I think through the rest of the restriction.

I come back to this thread tomorrow and look at the all the responses and let you guys know.

10

FWIW, I agree with virtually 100% of Rhubarb’s suggestions and assessment. (I like the “learning opportunities” part of it, just as a little added bonus).

11

I would add that breaking the window was the most serious offense because someone might have been seriously hurt. Lying is bad and so is disobeying orders but let’s at least not endanger others through our actions.

12

I disagree wholeheartedly.

Breaking the window was an accident.

Lying to his parents was intentional and is where the severe punishment enters the picture.

13

Yep, to me, the lying is worse. Stupid mistakes are some of life’s most valuable learning moments, and teaching a kid that he’s not allowed to make mistakes is not something I really support. Teach him how to avoid mistakes using common sense. Teach him that when he does make a mistake, he’s responsible for fixing it.

Teaching them not to make mistakes is a losing proposition. You’re setting them up for failure, since mistakes are inevitable, and valuable.

The lying is a different ballpark. It is okay to teach your kids not to lie.

14

oops, was supposed to be: Teaching them they’re not allowed to make mistakes. Subtle, but important difference.

15

I’m not a fan on long, drawn out punishments like grounding because it makes me be grounded, too.

One creative punishment I used once was to have the lying kid copy quotes from Bartletts Book of Familiar Quotations. I had the kid copy all the quotations three to five times (in case he attempted to shut his brain off while copying the quotes) and had him copy all the quotes listed under topics such as “lying”, “honesty”, “truthfulness”, “trustworthiness”… stuff like that there.

16

I agree with everyone about going heavier on the lying. But I’m a big fan of natural consequences when it comes to punishment, and that means paying for the window. I also want to point out that going over to apologize to the neighbors was part of the punishment and has already been carried out!

17

I don’t take lying lightly at all. It’s pretty much the one thing I won’t tolerate from my daughter, luckily, she hasn’t (yet) pushed that one hard (she’s 8 now, I’m sure in 3 years she’ll be SO much smarter than daddy and think she can pull the wool over my eyes all the time, though I pitty her when I catch her [and I will]).

But it seems to me that your kid’s lying was related more to the neighbor being present than anything. It sounds like he knows to be honest and forthright to his parents about what he’s done wrong, and wasn’t trying to lie, as much as trying to avoid embarassment by having “the whole world know.” At that age, silent judgment from the neighbors can be overwhelmingly scary. It was for me.

This is not to say this is not a problem. A truly forthright individual always admits their failures, and works to fix the problem, without paying attention to “being embarassed,” but at the very least, you know you son knows to be honest with you, and knows he CAN be honest with you, even if he’s not so willing to come clean in front of the neighbors.

It sounds like as soon as the neighbor was out of ear-shot, he came clean. This, to me, says that the kid DOES understand honesty, and does understand he must (and can) come clean to you, as his parents, which is a wonderful thing. Many children that age can’t trust their parents like that, so it’s great that you’ve shown him he CAN be honest with you.

Not saying he doesn’t deserve punishment for lying…but I do think I’d remember that his intention was not to lie to his mother, but to hide his embarassing behavior from the neighbor, and that as soon as was possible, he admitted his faults in the privacy of his own house. That’s a LOT better than a kid who’d deny it to be bitter end, despite all evidences, in an attept to circumvent any possible punishment.

JMO. Am I wrong? Is lying to the neighbor, but confessing as soon as she’s gone just as bad as continuing the lying to your parents, and refusing to admit wrongdoing at all?

Steve

18

Ca3799 must have gone to the same school of parenting that my dad went to.

Stupidity, such as golf ball infractions were dealt with by denying privleges and/or hard labor.

Lying was inevitably punished with a remarkably dull, repetitive routine that was always coupled with learning. Examples that pop immediately to mind:

Copying all or part of a letter of the dictionary, by hand, including all of the accent marks, definitions, etc. Occasionally I would be tested on the words I copied. Failure to give at least a reasonable definition resulted in a repeat. Encyclopedias were another favorite.

My dad’s hobby was civil war history. He would make me read books about this general or that battle, then test me on it. This had the added benefit of becoming a hobby for me as well in later life, but as a kid it sucked mightily.

Volunteering at the library. YMMV on this, it did for my dad. I was a bibliophile as a kid, so working in a library wasn’t really punishment for me, though I moaned about it incessantly. Most librarians will be more than happy to have a volunteer shelve books all day long.

Reading the front page and local sections of the newspaper and writing summaries of the stories that included my opinion on the subject. I had to be ready to discuss my opinion and why I held it.

The best part of it all was that, in essence, I decided the length of my own punishment (unless it was library duty). My dad would give me an assignment that could take a few days or a few weeks, depending on how hard I worked at it. After a while, I learned that it was best to get it done as fast as possible because deliberatly delaying resulted in added pages of dictionary or encyclopedia.

Though the punishments sucked when I was a kid, I can honestly say I’m thankful for them as an adult. I’m better educated than I have any right to expect, and my vocabulary is excellent, which is useful for my favorite board game, Scrabble. I was also force-marched into a hobby that I really enjoy.

19

Big-Ole-Steve, your post made me rethink and go back to ask my wife the exact timeline of the incident, and I got a different reply. She told me I wasn’t listening to the whole story because I didn’t take the time listen to her first before I took my son to the neighbors. So, now it happened more like this:

Mutual Neighbor (she’s a boardmember of our Home Owners Assoc.) and Affected Neighbors were walking around the block and saw my Wife gardening in the front yard and asked if we had a “golf machine” in our back yard. My wife said no we don’t, although we are considering putting in a putting green in our backyard in the near future. My wife seemed a little confused on why they would ask such a strange question in passing…MN and AN did not mention at the time that there was a broken window caused by a golf ball…at this time, I was inside helping my oldest son with his Algebra2 homework BEFORE I took him to the mall. When I did take my oldest son to the mall (about an hour later), MN called and my wife answered the phone. MN then told her about AN’s broken window and finding a golf ball nearby and then my wife asked my 8 year old son if he was hitting golf balls in the back yard earlier (MN knew that my 8yo likes to golf - hence the suspicion). My 8yo said “no” just once (loud enough so the MN can hear that over the phone), but my wife mentioned to MN that what other explanation is there for the broken window…so my wife asked our 8yo again, and THEN he broke down crying, “Yes, I did do it”. My wife explained to MN that we will contact AN and make plans on repairing/replacing it. End of phone conversation.

So, my son denied doing it once and then admitted to it on the second query within a minute. A bit different than denying it 3-4 times in front of MN in the front yard…and from this I’m thinking of lowering the time of restriction, but will make him pay for the repair/replacement by doing extra chores/work. I do like Ca3799’s idea of having my 8yo copying sections of that book, Bartletts Book of Familiar Quotations. Some of these are accessible online…cool. I think I will incorporate some writing about honesty.

So, right now (and discussing this with my wife), I think it will come down to:

  1. Three (or two) days restriction for ignoring previous warnings.
  2. Four (or five) days restriction for lying that ONE time. Also, copy relevant quotes from Bartletts.
  3. Pay for the repair/replacement of the window with extra chores/work to be done on weekends…no golfing until it is paid back in full.
  4. Lock up the golf balls and clubs and treat them like guns…with respect.

Fair enough for an 8 year old?

20

I think the punishments are good ones, except maybe the monetary one. Depending on exactly how much the window costs to replace, your boy might not be golfing for a very looooonnnng time. Which might not be a bad thing, but might also be hard to do. Perhaps something like no golfing for a month, and working extra chores and weekend work until the window is paid off?

That way he’ll learn the lesson of accidents having consequences, but not be bitter about never being able to golf again (you know, Kid Standard Time and all that).