With the first one, it sounds to me like the kid just wants a little privacy.
Picture yourself at work. You are working on a project that has been giving you trouble, but honestly you just want to be done with it. Then your boss comes in asking what you are working on. You’d honestly rather just slap the thing together on your own and get on with your life. Wouldn’t you tell your boss you were working on something else?
You’ve already proven to the kid that if he is seen doing his homework he is going to be punished (i.e. forced to sit for a long long time doing a more thourough job than he cares to do). Of course he is going to try to hide it.
I ran into this a lot as a kid- I’d tell lies when telling the truth would make things a whole hell of a lot more complicated than they started out as. I think if you give him a little more room for self determination and maybe ease up some academic pressure (which can sometimes inspire a kid to fail, since that is “doing something for themselves” the only way they can) would have some good results.
I’m totally willing to spank my kids…in theory. In reality, I find there are lots of better ways to fix problems.
Yikes! Now that’s just evil.
I talked to the boy last night. He wouldn’t really cop to the second lie. He said he thought he had told me he was going to get the plaque ( :dubious: ), and my husband didn’t help him get it out, but he helped him put the garage back in order afterward (true). Therefore the thrust of the conversation became, “Well, after the lie you told me about the homework, I have to be careful about trusting you. I’ll be paying closer attention to the things you say from now on, and the next time I find you’ve been lying, something dreadful is going to happen.”
When I told my husband about the conversation later, he joked, “I didn’t mean for you to be that hard on him.”
I think children lie because they have no third option. Adults can do one of three things when asked a question. Tell the truth, lie, or respond with a smiling NOYDB. In adult relationships, “none-of-your-damn-business” is perfectly acceptable, whereas between an adult and a child it is considered impertinent.
Sometimes what a child does is in fact none of the parent’s business. Try having to explain yourself as a child when you’ve just been caught by your mom discovering the joys of your penis.
“Nothing” is pretty much a child’s way of saying NOYDB.
“Nothing” from your girlfriend? Well, that’s a whole different ballgame. A “nothing” from a girlfriend always means “you are in such deep doodoo I don’t know where to begin”.
Keep in mind that sometimes kids are in a ‘power struggle’… my son keeps all information held tight in check… getting a straight answer from him on anything is a serious struggle… turns out that he likes the ‘power’ it gives him to control the conversations… makes him feel important…
Don’t assume that the ‘lies’ are an intent to decieve… he could just be craving more attention, or isnt sure how to approach certain things.
Confronting him that you know he is’nt being ‘100% honest’ about things is fine…and you need to let him know that you recognize when things aren’t honest, but give him a chance to decide to come clean, without repurcussions for the lie part… basically something like " I know you aren’t being completley honest with me about x (insert reasons here), and I need you to know a) that you can be and b) when your ready to talk about it, i’ll listen." Also let him know that if he is caught in a lie that has real consequences (the kind that pit parents against each other) that there will be consequences.
Basically, he’s checking boundries and trust, trying to be his own little person… don’t sweat the small stuff, keep in check the big stuff and let him know you’re actually paying attention to all stuff.
Just remember not to ignore the grey areas of this, it’s not black and white it’s more complex than that, and you need to look at that and help him grow. I’d still work on finding out why he’s lying, get to the bottom of what’s going on inside. I’d also seriously consider a math tutor, to alleviate his struggles and help him gain confidence in his abilities to solve the problems.
Children do not have the capacity of reasoning that adults do. I suggest you punish your child each time he lies. Here’s the trick, do not punish him with things that are not related with the thing he has been lying about. Do not ground him with the ususal “you can’t go out on weekends” bit, intead try to punish him in a way that actually shows to him why lying is bad.
Maybe that’s why this is so difficult - I believe lying is bad, and neither kids or adults should do it, but it’s pretty hard to describe exactly why it’s bad. It’s disrespectful of other people. It destroys trust. How do you make that mean anything to a 10 year old?
Yeah, I mean, it’s not easy and It’s hard to think of concrete examples unless you have a specific situation in which you can apply this.
If a kid is lying too much then perhaps you should show him why lying can be bad. Show him an example of how a lie can hurt other people.
Perhaps YOU should lie to them about something that matters to them, so when they do realize that you’ve been lying to them, you can then say “See? This is why lying is harmful”.
I’m a teacher, and I know it sounds a little simplistic, but everyone has an action that he honestly doesn’t like. It doesn’t have to be a beating, but there’s a toy, game system, dessert, tv, playtime, etc. that can be taken until the behavior stops. If the lying doesn’t stop, there’s something more than can be piled on. I personally also am in favor of using the carrot also, and not just the whip, so I’d have some sort of reward when it became clear that the behavior had stopped. That way a kid doesn’t feel just beat down.
IMHO a child lying about doing his homework is no big deal. No one gets hurt. That is the way the kid looks at it. That is the way most kids look at it. IMHO this calls for an expression of diaproval.
The second incident is just not clear. You say he lied to your husband because he said you knew about it. Knew exactly what ? That Paul was entitled to this stuff ?
You did didn’t you?
You say he lied to you. Your husband knew about it by then didn’t he? As far as helping moving things perhaps your husband helped put the mess back together again.
I wouldn’t lie to him — that’s not setting a good example.
What might bring the message home is to pretend to suspect him of lying about something you’re very certain is actually true. That may make him realize what lying does to his reputation — how lying makes people not trust him at all. A demonstration may be in order.
The fact that he said he was “doing math for fun” suggests he wants you to think he likes it. He knows you’re good at it; he looks up to you. He wants you to think he’s good at math, too, good enough that he enjoys it casually. I’m guessing he wants your approval badly.
That’s why suspecting him of lying may … well, hurt him in just the way he needs to motivate him to change. If you no longer approve of him because of his lying, if you demonstrate your distrust of him, it may make him stop.
It wasn’t clear even to me. Instead of a lie, maybe it should just be labelled “a suspicious incident”. That’s why I sort of let it go during our talk.
Thanks everyone who answered. I’m giving consideration to all that’s been said.
I’d second getting a math tutor. I had trouble with math as a kid, and my parents got me a tutor that not only showed me the mathematically correct way of doing things, but also little tips and tricks to do math quickly and efficiently without wasting time. I credit that tutor with why one of my majors in college was math.
My parents had both tried to explain math to me, and while both of them were smart, they didn’t necessarily know how to explain it to a 7th grader. Also, the tutor was younger than my parents–I believe she was 18–and therefore much more “cool.”
These kind of tactics only guaranateed that I became very good at lying to my parents. I never got caught at it, and would never confess, but I sure as hell didn’t start telling them the truth all the time.
Over time the situations where they got lies turned into situations where they got ‘that is not your business.’ The parents would snoop (well, my mum would snoop and my dad would get a full report) and it made me better at hiding things. I used to hide things in their room because they would only snoop in mine.
This all started around the time I had decided I liked privacy and they decided that being respectful and knocking on the door was something only done for adults. If they weren’t going to respectfully let me have my privacy, I was determined to protect it by force.
