I am unfamiliar with Baptist doctrine, but to answer your question, yes, I think that a teacher at a church school will be teaching that church’s beliefs. It’s up to you how to react to this.
I would have a problem with this, but truthfully? I probably wouldn’t do anything about it.
The child is almost five. This is his last year of pre-school, and next year he’ll be in kindergarten (I assume?). He is comfortable in the school and apparently happy there, and I think we can assume they take good care of him.
I don’t know to what extent a five-year-old knows or cares about things like who marries whom. I guess I would be confident that I could overcome their teachings on this point with my own personal views of tolerance, which I could teach him by discussion and by example throughout his childhood. I suspect what upset him was the idea that his parents and his teachers may not agree on what’s right – I’m not a parent, but IIRC from my time as a nanny, kids that age do not like uncertainty. But making a big deal about it with him might make the episode more memorable, when I’d like it to be less so – I wouldn’t want him to remember what they said about the matter at all.
So on the one hand, you’ve got them telling your son something you disagree with, perhaps strongly, but you’ve got a son who’s safe and happy and your day care arrangements are already in place. And you have the rest of his life to teach him that you and your household do not believe what he was taught in preschool.
On the other hand, you can stand by your convictions and yank him out of school, but then you have to find somewhere else to send him – somewhere else that will be an unknown quantity in every respect.
If he were younger, I’d probably take him out. At his age, I’d probably live with it. But I would have a quiet word with his teacher to the effect that while you respect the church’s beliefs and teachings, you’d appreciate it if they would refrain from talking to your child about homosexuality, because the church teachings do not reflect your own beliefs, and the conflict between the two is difficult for you to explain and is upsetting to him. Maybe they’ll respect that and maybe they won’t, but it’s worth a try.
I don’t think the “what did you expect” line of argument is valid - who would reasonably expect that their preschooler would be exposed to discussions of homosexuality at their daycare?
It’s not an age-appropriate subject.
I would talk to the admin, and talk to your son.
If it were me (I wouldn’t dream of telling you how to parent, this is just IMVHO), I would explain that no one really knows what God wants, not even teacher. No one else can tell us what God wants, we have to find it out for ourselves. Then I would say that I believe God just wants us to love one another, and it doesn’t matter whether we love girls or boys, because what is inside matters more than our bodies, which are just shells.
This is not a “what do you expect” thing. Not at all.
This is not a “Baptist” thing, or a “Christian” thing, this is someone else pushing their PERSONAL morality onto your child. A personal morality you object to and which has caused you and your son distress.
I think it would be a mistake to become embroiled in a fight with the church as an institution, when it is possible that your beef is with a single person.
Explain very carefully to daycare, that while you are happy for him to say prayers, and be taught that murder, lying and theft are wrong, you object to him being given biased and age-inappropriate information as it has upset him and you, and made your job as a parent more difficult.
They should understand that, and it should be possible to reach a compromise.
We have ‘bible in schools’ here. It is an optional thing and officialy not during school hours (school starts half an hour later once a week!). It’s kinda odd because NZ is not a very religous country but I think that is the reason it has lasted is parents thinking ‘ah shit let the school tell em’.
Many schools are opting out of the practice but my sons first school still had it. He had been at school about 6 weeks. I picked him up and he said.
“Mum do you know who made the world”
“No” said I (he was only 5)
“God made the world” said he
“Yes lots of people think that” I said
“Do you think that mum?”
“No I don’t. But you can. People think all kinds of different things”
“You are wrong mum”
I may be. But he never went back to bible in schools. My child has every right to believe, but at 5 I think he should be getting his values and beliefs from his family not random strangers. What he chooses to believe as an adult, or even as a teenager is up to him. But at the tender age of 5, I made the choice to expose him to things that don’t say I am wrong. I may very well be proven wrong in the afterlife but that’s my loss.
Since he turned 10 he has gone to a christian craft group (that he wanted to go to because his friends were). At 10, I felt he was old enough to hear and get exposure to some religion. It hasn’t caused an issue between us at all. He knows my opinion and he knows I am good friends with some of the christians teaching the craft group. He is free to decide for himself.
I strongly believe very young children should not be exposed to beliefs that are likely to butt up against their parents.
One question, from someone who knows almost nothing about kids. A salt shaker is available for those who want to take my question with a grain or more of salt.
Is your son at an age where rules and gender roles are important, kind of like, “boys don’t play with dolls”, “girls don’t like frogs”, and boys and girls don’t mix? I know there’s an age where that sort of thing happens as kids try to sort out the way the world works. I just wonder if this is coming out of a feeling of “this is the way the world should be”. I think five is a little young to be be sorting out all the nuances of how things shoudl be.
That said, I would explain to your son what your beliefs are, and tell him that things often aren’t so simple. You do realize this isn’t the first time your son’s going to ask you a tough question, at least, not if you’re lucky. I still remember my minister’s 9 year old daughter asking me, “Why are people so mean?” and not having a decent answer for her, despite being about 25 years older.
I wish you luck, strength and courage. May your son become as decent a human being as you are.
CJ
Because he’s been there since infancy and only has less than a year till kindergarten. He is already starting to stress about the changes in his life that are coming up next year.
It provides great care. After 4 years of using them, this is my first complaint.
Now, now then. Who said anything about fundamentalism?
The more I think about it, the more I think it was an individual teacher’s ill-thought out answer to the children’s question. She’s not a member of the center’s church, but belongs to a more fundamentalist denomination.
Now, for what it’s worth, I spoke to the director well before I started this thread. I practically have a hot line to her and to a member of the board. In fact, if we were using this center for after school care next year, I’d probably try to be on the board. The director is new and unsure of how to handle this, but I have a feeling it won’t happen again. This kind of indoctrination is not part of their mission.
As an aside, last night my husband told me he was told this baloney in college. He attended a Catholic college and there was a theology requirement. However, even though it’s a Catholic college, it’s in an urban setting and pretty darn mainstream. There are many non-Catholics there I’m sure. What do you think of this kind of teaching in a college setting?
We work pretty hard at being gender neutral (although we don’t use contrived language). So far, so good. In fact, he’s in ballet and tap because he’s too young for our town’s soccer league.
Whether we, as parents, like it or not, our kids are going to be exposed to opinions/thoughts/beliefs we don’t hold.
No, a school should not be trying to force morality on a preschooler. A discussion about sex on any level is probably a little premature for that age level.
However, a Baptist school is going to have Baptist teachers who think the Baptist doctrine is THE only doctrine and try to leave an impression with the kids they are teaching. “Planting a seed” and all that…
I think my first step would be to have a conversation with my child again and talk through what he has heard, what he thinks, what you think, etc.
I have faced some questions from my 6 year old and I have always responded with the statement that some people believe X, some believe Y, I believe Z and I don’t know who is right but as he grows up he will have to find his own way.
I never want my kids to believe something just because I do. I want them to embrace different ways of thinking and decide what they believe with no coersion from me.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Umm…you seem to be having a pretty hard time drawing a distinction between a theology-based enterprise and a secular one.
A Catholic college and a Baptist daycare are just what they sound like. Places run by people who are those things. Not only places run by those things, because you can certainly be Baptist and run a daycare and it not be a “Baptist daycare,” but since they’re named that, places that are governed by those ideas.
I would expect that if one of the children brought up the subject of gay marriage, a Baptist (at least as I understand the doctrine of Baptists, I’m not one) might say pretty much what that teacher said. I would think that homosexuality would be a valid topic for the curriculum in a doctrine class at a Catholic school.
You don’t walk into the Olive Garden Italian Restaurant and order a cheeseburger, do you?
I did mention that the teacher, it turns out, is not Baptist, didn’t I? It turns out she’s Seventh Day Adventist and most likely speaking out of turn. That’s the follow up of my little story.
You may be right about the Catholic college. If my son chose one, and to be honest I hope he doesn’t (although there is one nearby that gives a world class education), I hope he would have enough life experience to take the theology requirement with a grain of salt. At almost five, he’s not there yet and was pretty upset I challenged his teacher.
As I said, I don’t mind the Jesus stuff he’s learning. The little songs are cute and I sing them with him in the car. There are families that have freaked out from the song about being in the Lord’s Army. My son tells me to stop singing it so much. It’s hysterical and I can’t stop. Anyway, this is what I signed up for. Moralizing about who is allowed to marry whom is NOT what I signed up for. I’m not a dumb lady, I asked to what extent the ministry went and was told Bible songs and Bible stories.
So, anyway, I told on the teacher and it’s going to be fine. But, really, if they were to be allowed to say what the teacher said, where does one draw the line? Can she next say that mommy should be submissive to daddy? Should she tell my son his infant baptism isn’t valid or that his Catholic friend’s mom is full of crap for thinking that communion becomes the blood and body rather than representing it? Not when the ministry is Bible songs and Bible stories and not when the little ones are too young to understand.
And, I don’t walk into the Olive Garden at all.
IMO Jodi offers sage advice. This too will pass.
For a variety of reasons we enrolled our kids in a chuch-run pre-school the year or 2 before they started kindergarten. In our opinion, the multiple merits outweighed the potential harm from their somewhat moderate Christianity. In our minds, seeing as at that age our kids believed in Santa, the tooth fairy, and the Easter Bunny, exposure to one more myth wouldn’t permanently harm them.
And to this day we seem to have been able to communicate to our kids that different people believe different things, after which we present in whatever detail is desired or appropriate mom and dad’s views along with the reasons behind them. And, from day one we have freely told our kids that authority figures - including teachers and parents - are neither infallible nor unquestionable. When we consider a teacher’s information incorrect, we tell our kids why. But, we tell them that throughout life they will meet with fallible authority figures, and that they will need to pick their battles. Moreover, tho the boss may be wrong, he or she is still the boss.
The foray with christian pre-school doesn’t seem to have significantly interfered with the raising of our three fine young heathens.
It obviously depends on how they present the message, and indeed, how it’s brought up in the first place. Certainly I don’t think “Today’s lesson” should be “The Homo who went to Hell,” but if a kid brings it up, in a religious daycare, what is the teacher supposed to say? Sure, lots of people believe lots of different things, but presumably if a kid is in a religious daycare, that child’s parents didn’t just gloss over that part of the sign when they dropped him or her off that morning.
I don’t think they should be teaching about it, certainly, and if that’s what happened, then I agree with you.
However, when asked by a child (who is obviously old enough to understand that the majority of people who marry are mommies and daddies, or else wouldn’t think two mommies marrying was anything out of the ordinary, and to be asked about), I don’t think it’s so terrible for them to give the “official” opinion (as seen by the church (even if the lady wasn’t Baptist, Baptists generally don’t agree with gay marriage and homosexuality, right?)) in a non-hateful way that the child understands.
I sure as hell hope that your kids aren’t gay. One of my best friend’s parents did that to him and after he came out of the closet he never spoke to them again. They are both dead now and he regrets nothing about his decision.
I can’t really say for certain what the particular faith of the daycare entails, but if an anti-homosexual agenda is on the table then I think they are well within their rights to start telling the kids that early, thats how the operate. Get 'em while their young and lack critical thinking skills. People tend to carry these ideas with them their whole lives and never really question the logic behind it. But morally I think they are right to teach the kids that if thats what they believe, and you have the right to not subject your child to such ignorant blather.
Caricci, before I read your follow-up I was going to suggest that this was exactly the case: that it was one teacher, mistakenly overstepping her bounds, rather than a school policy or doctrine.
My son now attends a non-denominational Christian preschool. My husband and I are not particularly religious, and we part ways pretty quickly with some of the less tolerant tenets of fundamentalism. However, that would not keep us from putting him a school with wonderful teachers, a peaceful environment, and a philosophy that children are blessings.
I did read over their handbook before enrolling him, of course, and was much reassured to have them articulate that on most moral matters they would defer questions to parents. I do have a concern with some of the things they say they teach their middle schoolers about sexuality (they say sex outside of marriage doesn’t realize God’s purpose–I don’t mind the promotion of waiting, even though I don’t expect my son to–but I find the statement too narrow given that gay couples aren’t given the privilege of marriage), but we’ll worry about that when we get there. If this is discussed with my preschooler, we’ll have a conference as it violates not just our wishes but their own school policy.
I think you handled this the right way.
Your sentiments and mine are the same. The “children as blessings” thing is exactly what attracted me to our daycare. I am even willing to put up with no Halloween (I am all about Halloween) or Santa Claus at the center because, all in all, they are very kind people and I am glad I spoke up about it to the director.
I think I learned a lot from this whole experience.
Thank you for the kind words, Cranky.
I also would like to say that I appreciate the way you handled the situation, in case my posts above or their perceived tone indicated otherwise.
It’s refreshing to find someone who actually takes the time to call and find out what happened, rather than take the kneejerk response to pull the kid out of there and publicly condemn the place.