I dated a girl who bought into this philosophy, and her married friends with kids did too: When you have children, you need to start going to church for the childs sake.
OK. When you turn 18 or whenever you move out, you have no interest in continuing church attendence. So why put your children through the same cycle?
If you want to go to church, go to church. There is no need to wait for children.
I sort of buy into the philosophy myself. Particularily if the children in question are attending public school.
Church or Sunday School can provide a moral education, regardless of the religious beliefs taught.
And with the mass media (television, radio, movies, etc.), can this be a bad thing? And when you’re 18, you have the choice of continuing or stopping.
It’s not going to stop every deranged child from shooting up his school, but it’s not going to hurt, either.
Still trying to think of something witty to say here
As opposed to the parents actually providing a moral education to the little tykes?
C’mon folks! You really can teach your children by example what you consider to be moral behaviour. They’ll probably appreciate that than seeing you be a hypocrite by sending them to something you have no interest in yourself.
Monty, I could not agree with you more. It is the parent’s ultimate task to pass on morals and social responsibility. IMO, too many ignore this aspect of parenthood.
Church should not replace a parents guidance in this department. However, it does supply a structured environment to reinforce these values.
I was ‘subjected’ to church until I was 18, at which point I left home on my own. Am I a religious person because of it? Not at all. But I do believe it reinforced my parents teachings.
Still trying to think of something witty to say here
:: blinking, rubbing eyes, looking around :: Why is this a Pit thread?
I think church is one of the most damaging things you can do to a child. I was put through the torture of church until I was 17 and it brought about nothing but bitterness. If you think I’m going to put my son through 18 years of brainwashing and conformity you’re very sadly mistaken. Also, Christianity teaches that I’m a satanist and am going to hell, and the bible says I shouldn’t be allowed to live. Yeah, I’m gonna take my family to a weekly meeting of THOSE people.
I will teach my son morals at home, and teach him my religion at home.
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Teeming Millions: http://fathom.org/teemingmillions
“Meat flaps, yellow!” - DrainBead, naked co-ed Twister chat
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com
I think it is terribly sad that people send their kids to church so that they can get a moral upbringing. Neither of my parents has ever taken me to any sort of religious service in my life (with the exception of my Catholic grandfather’s funeral) and that didn’t stop them from teaching me right from wrong. FYI, my mother was raised strictly Catholic (12 years of Catholic school, church every Sunday) and my father was raised atheist. My parents never told me there was a god, but they did tell me to be respectful of other people, say please and thank you, and…you know, other good stuff. I think taking children to religious services because one feels obligated to makes the whole thing a farce and hypocrisy. If you don’t want to be there, don’t go. Religion isn’t necessary to have good kids.
~Harborina
I went to church for a while. Hated every minute of it. I rebeled against it and all it stood for for a while. My mom tried to make me go until I proved that my incivility wasn’t worth making me go to church.
Now I no longer rebel against the church, but I don’t agree with it won’t go, and won’t force my children to go. As it is, I disagree with it, but am no longer hostile.
I would not send my children there, because I wouldn’t want them absorbing those ideas.
I sold my soul to Satan for a dollar. I got it in the mail.
It all depends on what kind of church, doesn’t it?
If you go to a church full of friendly people who are accepting and loving (and will help each other out, like an extended family) you are on the right track. If you go to a church where they teach love and not discrimination, you are on the right track. It can be a positive influence, then.
If, however, you drag the kids to a church full of sour-faced, bitter and condemning gossips, of course the kids are going to hate it. I remember going to a church like that for many years, so of course I hated it. Still think back on those years with bitterness. Then our family switched to a different congregation, and what a difference! It became something I looked forward to.
Not that I think church is mandatory towards raising moral kids. The parents need to teach that at home. But a weekly trip to a loving, and happy church isn’t going to hurt at all, and may even be a nice addition.
y-babe: sure, if you’re Christian. Not everyone is, you know. I’m wiccan. Going to church would mean sitting around with a group of people and listening to them tell me how evil I am for not believing in god THEIR WAY. No thanks.
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Teeming Millions: http://fathom.org/teemingmillions
“Meat flaps, yellow!” - DrainBead, naked co-ed Twister chat
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com
What I don’t get is why parents force their children to attend church when the children are babies. That’s just sick.
Opal: Of course, if you are not a Christian, it would seem odd to drag your kids to a Christian church, wouldn’t it? I would not suggest that. If, however, a parent is vaguely Christian, or not adverse to Christianity, taking the kids to a nice church wouldn’t be the worst thing to do.
And, not all churches focus on ragging on Wiccans. I have never heard a word condemning Wiccans (or other religions) in my church, ever. (I guess it was too busy preaching kindness, and charity. I dunno.) I’m not saying that I attend the “perfect” church, but I do know from experience that just because a person has a bad experience with a church, it doesn’t mean that all churches are equally awful.
OpalCat wrote:
Opal, Christianity is obviously not the path for you, but that does not mean that the religion as a whole is evil.
You were forced to go to church as a child, it was an unpleasant experience for you, and now you’re bitter; that’s understandable. Because of that, it makes sense that you don’t think fondly about any flavor of Christianity. But do not presume that all Christian denominations are alike, nor that all churches or individual Christians are alike.
OpalCat continued:
That’s odd. I’m a practicing pagan myself, and I haven’t ever been singled out like that at a Christian service. Last time I was in a Catholic church, nearly all of the sermon dealt with the teachings of a guy called Jesus, and the story of how he rose from the dead.
When it came time for Communion, I had planned to remain seated, because that ceremony is reserved for Catholics only. But the priest invited members of all faiths to participate. Everyone from atheists to pagans to Protestants was welcome to approach the altar during Communion if they wished, to receive a blessing from the priest. Note that this was simply a raised hand and a simple invocation: “A blessing upon you.” If the priest thought I was some evil and despicable creature for having non-Catholic beliefs, he’d more likely have delivered a sermon on the subject, if not a full-out exorcism.
Opal, you assume that Christians are completely intolerant, and that they reject those different than themselves. But don’t you see, that is exactly what you are doing! Because of your own preconceptions, you lump all Christians together; you despise them as a whole because of the faults you perceive, despite the fact that those faults are not universal throughout the group.
Any wrongs you suffered in the past do not change the truth: you are just as guilty as the people you revile.
Exodus Chapter 22, Verse 18: “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.”
How much more intolerant can you get? And let’s not forget the Catholic Church’s long history of witch-burning. Some details are at http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_mccabe/religious_controversy/chapter_22.html
“Do not suffer a witch to live” doesn’t sound very accepting to me. Anyway, I don’t lump all CHristians together, nor do I ‘despise them’ or anything else you fucking accuse me of. I have no problem with CHRISTIANS. I have a problem with THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. You see, there is a difference, not that I would expect you to comprehend this, as you’ve already made up your mind about me.
As for going to church, hey, good for you that you’ve never been singled out. I’ve had plenty of people come up to me at church and tell me TO MY FUCKING FACE THAT I AM GOING TO HELL. Personally, I think that organized religion as a concept is a very destructive thing. I don’t hate the people themselves (unless they deserve it, individually) but I dislike the concept of the church, and I have serious issues with the Bible. The church tends to believe in the Bible, and therefore I don’t really dig on what they say.
Anyway, I have lots of CHristian friends, and 99% of my family is CHristian. I don’t dislike Christians. Again, I don’t expect you’ll believe me, as you know more about me than I do, obviously. :rolleyes:
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Teeming Millions: http://fathom.org/teemingmillions
“Meat flaps, yellow!” - DrainBead, naked co-ed Twister chat
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com
I was brought up catholic, and we were forced (YES, FORCED) to go to chatechism ever week, and curch once in a while ( we might have gone more, but mom wasnt inclined to drag us kicking and screaming.The people there are just like described above,pinched faced, gossipy…it was awful!
When I had ted, I was seperated from my legal husband, and I was not attending church. They REFUSED to baptize him, which in catholic terms meant if he died, even as an infant, he goes to hell. An aunt of mine asked a preist in the snall town where my moms family is from, (an hour away!) and he did it.
When Angkins got married almost 2 years ago, it was at this big old, it was a United church, and the guy(preacher/pastor/???) was so nice, and very 90’s.
I have gone there a few times, and it was nice, not preachy at all, they have an openly homosexual organist, single mothers in the congretation, it was really non-judgemental. At christmas this year, Ange and I took our kids to deliver some food boxes and gifts to a couple of needy families. There was a xmas eve service that consisted of a childrens play.
It is the least religous church I have ever seen, and the most welcoming. Angie has a brownie troop there, and last year she had 'Sparks" (littler brownies) and I helped out.
They have cub troops and youth groups, a theater groug, choir, all sorts of stuff for the kids, and they dont shove ‘god’ down their throats.
Sadly, the preacher guy left. He was about 30, had the sweetest little girl (who thought I was awesome!)and his replacement makes the houseplants cry from boredom.
If Ihad gone to a church like that as a child, maybe I wouldnt have resented it, maybe I would have turned out religious…
Its too late for me.
Opal, the kind of intolerance you describe would have been rampant at the church I went to as a child. they would have tied you to a stake and had childen throw the matches.
The other church though, you could have shown up in full wiccan regalia, with a couple of lesbain lovers, and a flock of illegetimate kids, and the preacher would said " cool, nice t’meetcha!".
There was something different about this church, it wasnt about ‘organized religion’ it was about community, and we could all use some more of that.
Gotta tell ya, true story, this is how we got mom to stop taking us to church:
I was about 13, maybe 14…my brother Andy was 11, or maybe 12.
We got to church, and sat way at the back, Mom didnt want the rich folks ‘looking’ at us. We were supposed to be very , very quiet. We got there, and she put me on her right, and andy on her left. We couldnt be trusted to sit together, we might make noise, or something terrible!
As the congregation slowly filtered in, we waited for churchto start, I could hear a baby crying faintly at the front of the church.
Andy nudged Mom, “Mom!” he whispered.
“Shhh!” she snapped
“Mom!!” he repeated,a bit louder
SHHHH! she snapped again
“MOM!!!” he repeated urgently, a little
louder
“SHHH!! OH What??” she finally asked
" Listen Mom, they’re gonna have a sacrifice!!" he said it loud enough that a few people around us heard him.
Mom started to snicker and giggle helplessly, she tried, OH LORD how she tried not to laugh, but she did.
She never took us to church ever again.
I felt it was a charged subject, and I was basically griping. Let me try again.
Why do these religious nut hypocrites force their children to sit still and be quiet for some church service that even they would not attend. MAYBE THEY SHOULD BE CRUCIFIED!!!
Better?
My parents took me and my brother to a Baptist church when we were little, for Sunday School. They thought it would be a “good thing,” you know. Then one Sunday, my brother and I told my dad he was going to go to hell, because he drank beer. My dad, like a lot of people, enjoys the occasional taste of an alcoholic beverage. That’s it. More alcohol crossed the lips of Jesus than has crossed my dad’s.
My parents took us out of that Sunday school, immediately. Then they decided not to church us at all. They decided to leave the religion decision to us. I appreciate that.
I was never baptized. I’m still not. My parents decided (before they stuck us in that goofy Sunday school) that baptism should be left for when we were older, understood what it was, and were ready to make that kind of a commitment. I honestly believe that my lack of baptism is a good thing. When I chose to quit being a hypocrite, and stopped referring to myself as a Christian, I didn’t feel any inner pain. Since I had never accepted Jesus as my personal savior, I felt no great loss the first time I said “I am not a Christian.” In fact, it was a relief.
I am so glad my parents realized their mistake with the Sunday School before any real damage was done. I am really, really glad they left the choice up to me, too. Right now, I don’t know what to call myself, though. I think the best way to describe it is polytheistic, heavy on the goddess. I’m still learning about it, and it’s very, very cool.
“The quickest way to a man’s heart is through his ribcage.” --anonymous redhead