My toddler has a temper. Advice wanted

[Anaamika]

Please don’t humiliate your children! God almighty, sometimes when I read parenting threads on the Dope I feel like some people were never children. Do you not remember any moment when your family humiliated you? Mine did plenty and I am almost 40 and the sting has not fully worn off. Neither that nor terrifying a very young child will help.

@raspberry_hunter

The Little One, at two years of age, rarely threw things, but she would work herself into easily half-hour tantrums over things we didn’t even understand (although we would figure out what some of them were later: e.g., Daddy walked in front of her! Mommy sang a song to her! Seriously, these were the sorts of things that would set them off).

This totally, totally amuses me, because a lot of times I’ll see a kid having a meltdown, along with all of the other emotions on the parent’s face, I often also see bewilderment and confusion…like “really? We’re doing this over a banana?”

[overlyverbose]

I agree - don’t shame your kids. That’s kind of a low blow, and you wouldn’t do that to an adult. Truthfully, I don’t see how you can do what you’re doing differently, other than to try not to comfort him so readily. Also, one thing we’re *still *working on with our son is to help him bring himself down and more calmly explain what is upsetting him. I think the sooner you start modeling coping skills with your kid and the sooner you begin giving him the vocabulary to explain what’s pissing him off, the better.

I have a boy, 7 and a girl, 3. And my son was a holy terror starting around 3 until 4.5. A LOT of it is the luck of the draw. And a LOT of it is how you handle it. I wish I had already had a kid by the time I had him - I probably would’ve been calmer. He has always been so incredibly intense. I think of my daughter as the “do-over” child because I don’t have nearly the time and energy available to spend on feeding her tantrums, so they usually peter out pretty quickly. But that’s partly her personality, too. She’s far more transparent than my son was at that age.

That said, if it makes you feel any better, my children got into a huge argument once about whether or not my daughter’s head was attached to her neck (her brother insisting that yes, it was; she insisting that absolutely not, it wasn’t). It resulted in my daughter having an epic tantrum in the car on the way home from school one day. She just dissolved into a puddle of shrieking and tears. I had to breathe deeply before getting out because I was trying so hard not to laugh at her. Kids are nuts.

[Gyrate]

@overlyverbose

I think the sooner you start modeling coping skills with your kid and the sooner you begin giving him the vocabulary to explain what’s pissing him off, the better.

This is the goal - to give your child the ability to 1) understand and articulate what he or she is feeling and why, and 2) handle strong emotions constructively (walking that line between total expression and total repression). It’s a hard, hard thing to do but patience, persistence and calm reassurance will win the day in the end.

[Anaamika]

@overlyverbose

That said, if it makes you feel any better, my children got into a huge argument once about whether or not my daughter’s head was attached to her neck (her brother insisting that yes, it was; she insisting that absolutely not, it wasn’t). It resulted in my daughter having an epic tantrum in the car on the way home from school one day. She just dissolved into a puddle of shrieking and tears. I had to breathe deeply before getting out because I was trying so hard not to laugh at her. Kids are nuts.

There’s a story someone told here - I think it was Whynot - about a kid and a banana (which is where I got my comment earlier). It went sort of like this. Kid wants a banana. Mom peels a banana and cuts it and gives it to her. Kid says she wanted an uncut banana. Mom peels another banana, eats the first one, and gives the kid the new banana. Kid looks at the banana, shrieks she wanted to peel her own banana, throws the banana on the floor, and goes into a full-blown meltdown.

That story always makes me smile! Whynot ended it with a comment like “One day you’re thinking - ‘what a cute baby, I can do this, I can be a good parent’ - and the next you’re stepping over thrown bananas and thinking ‘WTF?’”

Then there was my niece, who went to a meltdown over not having chocolate cake for dessert, tears, snot, angst, agony, everything. What did we have for dessert? Black and white cake with chocolate frosting. We tried to show her there was LOTS of chocolate in the cake but when the kid is that far into the meltdown there isn’t anything you can do except let the parents handle it.

[Happy_Fun_Ball]

Another thing that worked with my kids is to give them all the control but in a very limited fashion. Basically, if there is something that they won’t do, instead of giving them consequences, give them a choice: You can either do this or you can give me teddy, your choice… That kind of thing. If everything is put in their control (option 1 and option 2) and you force them to make a decision, they start to get more rational. When they would get upset (but I want to have Teddy back, waaaaaah), you just tell them that it was their choice, if they wanted teddy they should have gone with option 1…

They have to be a certain age for this to work, basically at the point where they start to think abstractly. The OP’s kid may be too young for this, but not by all that much.

[WhyNot]

@Anaamika

There’s a story someone told here - I think it was Whynot - about a kid and a banana (which is where I got my comment earlier). It went sort of like this. Kid wants a banana. Mom peels a banana and cuts it and gives it to her. Kid says she wanted an uncut banana. Mom peels another banana, eats the first one, and gives the kid the new banana. Kid looks at the banana, shrieks she wanted to peel her own banana, throws the banana on the floor, and goes into a full-blown meltdown.

That story always makes me smile! Whynot ended it with a comment like “One day you’re thinking - ‘what a cute baby, I can do this, I can be a good parent’ - and the next you’re stepping over thrown bananas and thinking ‘WTF?’”

That certainly sounds familiar, but I can’t swear to it! Parental amnesia…it’s the only thing that makes siblings possible.

[MsWhatsit]

Lots of good advice (and some shitty advice, but I think that has been clearly identified at this point) in this thread. I would only add that with kids in this age group, I think it is critical to make sure that you are withholding attention for negative behavior (as much as possible) and giving attention for positive behavior. Kids love attention and they will try to get it from you any way they can.

So, for example, if your kid throws a block or something, you take the block away and you tell the child that he has to go on time-out for two minutes. You set a timer. You put the child in a time-out area where he is not getting attention from you. If you have to keep an eye on him to make sure he stays put, then read a book or something, as raspberry hunter suggested. It is really important not to give the child attention during this time, no matter how much they scream, yell, try to negotiate, etc. If they try to leave the time-out area, just calmly get up and put them back, then leave/go back to reading.

The idea is to teach the child that negative behavior will result in loss of attention, not more attention.

I went to a parenting class targeted at teaching parents how to deal with high-tempered or oppositional children – I was kind of mis-sorted into this class, because my kid had autism and wasn’t really hugely oppositional or defiant, but I learned a lot from the class anyway. One thing they suggested that I found to be very helpful, but not intuitive at all, is that after the timeout is over, just tell the child, 'Yay! Timeout is over!" and give them a hug and send them on their way. Don’t lecture them about why they were in timeout or say “Now, make sure not to throw the block again!” or anything like that. Timeout is over, the kid is calm (hopefully), just move on. If you bring up the original misbehavior, a lot of times a small child will just start to melt down again, remember what happened and how they felt when they had to go into timeout, etc.

The other important half is to give positive attention for good behavior. So if your kid is prone to throwing stuff when he’s angry, then sometime when he is angry but doesn’t throw a block (better yet, if you see him start to pick up a block to throw, but think better of it and put it down) then praise him to high heavens for it. When I was a new parent, I subscribed to the idea that you shouldn’t over-praise children. I no longer think that way. Praise is one of the most effective tools you have as a parent. Don’t praise for everything under the sun; but do praise for specific things your child does that you are trying to encourage. Even if you think, “This is stupid to praise my child for this; it’s something he should just do without needing praise for it” - tough. If it’s something they’re struggling with, or a behavior that you’re trying to change, then you praise them every time you see them do what you want them to.

And also of course model the behavior that you want to see. I’m sure you’re not throwing blocks at each other in your house, and this may not even be relevant to your situation, but a lot of times kids will mimic the way that they see their parents handle frustration or anger. When I learned to take a deep breath and walk out of the room instead of just blowing up and screaming when my kids did something upsetting, it wasn’t long before I saw my oldest son start to react to frustrations by taking a big deep breath. Kids watch everything you do.

OK, this was sort of a longer post than I meant to type, but maybe some of it is helpful. Good luck, OP. You sound like a good parent.

[raspberry_hunter]

@MsWhatsit

One thing they suggested that I found to be very helpful, but not intuitive at all, is that after the timeout is over, just tell the child, 'Yay! Timeout is over!" and give them a hug and send them on their way. Don’t lecture them about why they were in timeout or say “Now, make sure not to throw the block again!” or anything like that.

YES THIS. My kid had to teach me this one: “Mommy, don’t say anything! Don’t say anything, Mommy!” I have a predisposition to lecture, which would make her even more upset, and things got better almost immediately (maybe after a week) after I took her (and MsWhatsit’s) advice and stopped lecturing her afterwards.

The other important half is to give positive attention for good behavior. So if your kid is prone to throwing stuff when he’s angry, then sometime when he is angry but doesn’t throw a block (better yet, if you see him start to pick up a block to throw, but think better of it and put it down) then praise him to high heavens for it. When I was a new parent, I subscribed to the idea that you shouldn’t over-praise children. I no longer think that way. Praise is one of the most effective tools you have as a parent. Don’t praise for everything under the sun; but do praise for specific things your child does that you are trying to encourage. Even if you think, “This is stupid to praise my child for this; it’s something he should just do without needing praise for it” - tough. If it’s something they’re struggling with, or a behavior that you’re trying to change, then you praise them every time you see them do what you want them to.

Also this, so much. About over-praising children: I think one can easily over-praise children, especially older children, for things they don’t have direct control over (being smart, being cute, etc.) – but especially with very young children, I think it can be really really helpful for them to praise specific choices they make that you agree with.

[WhyNot]

@raspberry_hunter

Also this, so much. About over-praising children: I think one can easily over-praise children, especially older children, for things they don’t have direct control over (being smart, being cute, etc.) – but especially with very young children, I think it can be really really helpful for them to praise specific choices they make that you agree with.

And praise for effort and work, not results. At least at this age. “Wow, I can tell you worked really hard on putting your socks away! You’re such a hard worker! Let me pick up these last couple of pairs you missed and you show me how you put them in the drawer, okay?”

My parents knew better than to praise me for my looks. What they did instead was praise me for being smart. That had its own pitfalls: when results didn’t come easy, I unconsciously decided I’d hit the limits of my intelligence and gave up. I didn’t value effort, I valued how easily things came to me because I was “smart”…until they didn’t come easy any more. :smack:

[TokyoBayer]

For the last couple of days, I’ve been working more on the throwing issue. This morning, he had some food that he would have thrown before. He picked it up, thought about it. Burst out crying and gave it to me instead. I was really happy about that.

Something else which helped is that we talked to the day care about how they handle it, and their timeouts are in a chair. While I don’t believe that one needs to change child raising philosophies to match the day care, we often have success if there are things we can do consistently, as it simplifies things for the child. I have been using the stairs as the time out, so a simple switch to a chair made things easier for him to understand it.

@Gyrate

This is the goal - to give your child the ability to 1) understand and articulate what he or she is feeling and why, and 2) handle strong emotions constructively (walking that line between total expression and total repression). It’s a hard, hard thing to do but patience, persistence and calm reassurance will win the day in the end.

This is exactly what I really would like to have for our children. This is also where I believe that the “old school” misses the bus, in that IMHO, they are teaching repression rather than having the child learn constructive skills. Dammit, I want you to shut up because I’m telling you to shut up," was the message I got drilled into my head as a child.It is hard, and I often have to remind myself to take myself out of the picture, which isn’t easy. "

@drewtwo99

This thread goes to show you that the advice you get is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Anytime you post a thread about kids, you’ll get (a) someone saying how America is going to hell become parents aren’t as strict as they used to. They were old school and their kids are grow up with no problems. (b) People with no kids, but they heard that XYZ are the only way of doing things.

I’m more guilty of the second for other types of threads, giving stupid advice that I don’t know anything about, so that doesn’t bother me.

I always wonder why people argue back on threads where they ask advice. It’s a public forum, you can’t ask for only confirmation of what you want.

@L. G. Butts

They have to be a certain age for this to work, basically at the point where they start to think abstractly. The OP’s kid may be too young for this, but not by all that much.

My daughter at almost 5 can understand it, but my son is too young. As noted above, I think it’s working. At least for this week.

@WhyNot

What they did instead was praise me for being smart. That had its own pitfalls: when results didn’t come easy, I unconsciously decided I’d hit the limits of my intelligence and gave up. I didn’t value effort, I valued how easily things came to me because I was “smart”…until they didn’t come easy any more. :smack:

Quoted for truth. This is exactly the same thing which my mother did, and I have exactly the same issues.

Thanks again people. One of the biggest values I get out of asking for advice is taking the time to articulate the problem.

[CanvasShoes]

Oh my heavens my son had temper tantrums!!! From 3ish til about 9. What worked for me? Distract him with humor. Fart jokes were comedy gold until he was 9 or 10. I had to be slightly clever about it, I couldn’t use the same ones all the time, but I kind of had to make sure there was a smooth segue and I wasn’t really talking to him.

It would go something like this. We’re going somewhere in the car and he is throwing a major tantrum in his carseat, because he doesn’t want to be in it.

Me: what is that smell? Oh my gosh, did the dog fart??? Oh dog!!!

As a toddler, it would work pretty quickly, as he got older he’d fight the funny…

son at ~5-9: stop it! (frowny pouty face)
Me: no I’m serious, I think she actually POOPED back there, ugh, I’m going to throw up!

Usually only took 2 more “gross outs” on my part before he’d be cracking up.

PS, he’s 21 and has a little one of his own now. I can’t wait!

Seems to only work with boys though.

[TokyoBayer]

Things have seemed to have settled down. I’d like to take credit, but I suspect that like most issues, it was a matter of timing.

I suspect that one thing which did help was the I regained being calm about it. Nothing like a frustrated parent to add fire to the child’s screaming.

He’s back to being relatively normal. Still gets into fights with his sister. Still doesn’t want his teeth brushed, but I’m picking my fights a little more carefully.

The throwing seemed to have stopped for now. He didn’t want his slice of bread the other day (he wanted his sister’s naturally) and he picked it up, with his hands shaking a bit. I’ve been jumping in and rescuing food at that stage, when I knew it was about ready to be airborne, but I decided to watch his reaction this time. He sort of waved it a second or two, and then handed it to me. Nice. Still kept crying about not getting the other bread, but at least we didn’t have jam on the floor.

As they say, you figure out one thing and then something else will come along, but at least for now life if easier in the Bayer household.

[elfkin477]

@TokyoBayer

So you are admitting he’s damaged because of your action and it would have been worse if it had been your parents?

Eh. According to a recent study done by someone at my university, sibling aggression causes mental illness later in life, so if they’re right, we’ve probably all damaged our siblings to one degree or another. article