Skald, failing the opportunity to use some of Fabulous Creature’s more outre devices and minions, I hope you and Mrs. R. get a lawyer, or three, and nail these bastards to the effing wall.
I’m sorry to hear that your wife is angry at herself, but very pleased to hear she’s using the anger to make sure she will disprove their theories about her.
Kick the bastards in the nuts (figuratively)!
Holy crap! I’ve worked in some shitty places at times, but I’ve never even *heard *of a reaction like that from HR.
Good on Mrs R for keeping her temper, wits and the signed memo.
Sue the bastards.
This is NOT her fault! She knows that, right?
I’m not big on running to lawyers, either, but this is one of the things they’re for. At least talk to somebody and find out what your options are.
Mrs. R should be so proud of herself for reporting this, and for holding it together in HR. She’s finding her strength. No matter how this comes out, that’s a good thing.
I’ve done some youth work, and such a reaction (reprimand 'em both) seems to be becoming common in schools.
When a bully assaults another kid in school, the school officials call it a ‘fight’, and punish both kids equally. Even if the kid didn’t even try to defend himself – apparently just standing there being beaten is ‘fighting’ and will get you suspended.
This is much easier for the school officials, of course. They don’t have to do any work figuring out who started the fight, but can just automatically suspend 'em both. But the kid being bullied is now punished by the school, too. Hardly fair! But that doesn’t seem to matter to school officials.
Until we do what maggenpye suggested – sue the bastards.
Consult counsel, and do it quickly.
Update to the update:
I got a small but crucial detail wrong in yesterday’s missive, which I must correct to put this update in perspective.
It was NOT the HR guy who gave her the written warning. It was her immediate boss, whom I’ll “Jimmy” (not his real name, for obvious reasons). No one will be surprised to learn is a friend of the Dickless Wonder, and who had witnessed at least two of the incidents, including one that left her in tears.
This matters because, when she came back from her meal break, the actual HR person, “James,” who was NOT present when my wife was given the bullshit warning, came up to her and, very politely, asked if she would mind giving back the reprimand memo, as it was a “mistake.” She though about it for a second, then asked why. James didn’t want to say, so my wife said she’d have to think about it and ask some people for advice. After that, about an hour before she went home, her boss’s boss, whom I’ll call “Angie,” asked her to step into her office. HR-James was there. Angie gave her a new memo, which said, basically, that my wife should disregard the written warning she’d gotten earlier; it was supposedly a “clerical error.” Angie refused to explain further but did apologize for any mixup and for any distress my wife had suffered because of this soi-disant clerical error.
Her friend who told me about the harassment and who supported her story also got written up and also had the same thing happen (request for the reprimand without explanation followed by a meeting with Angie and James undoing the previous memos.
I have my own thoughts as to what all this means.
That their lawyer finally got back to them?
I hope they’re all shaking in their boots.
It is not only illegal, it was very, very stupid.
Viewing their actions in the most charitable light possible, what they did & the explanation they gave were probably based on a misunderstanding of Harassment law. It is true that an employer can be punished for failing to take reasonable care to prevent and correct harassment, including formal policies that encourage reporting. However, this does not extend to the right to punish a victim who fails to report “early enough”.
In fact, when you make a claim of harassment (on the basis of sex, race, age, etc), the law currently leans towards the idea that employees must report harassment promptly, at the first incident almost, in order to retain their claim that a Hostile Work Environment existed. (see Matvia v. Baldhead Island (4th Cir. 2001)). It varies by circuit, but many require a victim to report the first sign of harassment, before it becomes a pattern.
What this employer seem to not realize, is that the victim-employee failing to report the harassment promptly is an employer’s defense NOT a source of liability. In fact, the victim’s unreasonable failure to complain is a complete defense to liability for the employer!
Moreover, a Retaliation claim is completely independent of the merit of the underlying harassment complaint (as long as it’s not actually frivolous). Here, the employer went so far as to specify that her punishment flowed directly from her complaint.
Thus, this dingbat employer has transformed a Harassment claim which was arguably fundamentally weak (because the reporting was not prompt at an early stage of the behavior) into a Retaliation claim which appears quite strong.
DO NOT GIVE BACK THAT MEMO UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
This is not legal advice. I am not your lawyer. I am not A lawyer. I am speaking in general, theoretical terms. Speak to a lawyer with expertise in Employment law as soon as possible to understand how the law in your locality + the particular facts affect your rights under the law
I wonder how HR found out about what happened with Jimmy? Did he go in there, bragging about how he dealt with the situation, and they went :eek: :smack: ?
From now on, your wife needs to take every single incident straight to HR. It’s obvious her supervisor is clueless on this issue. And I’d be curious to see how DW behaves from now on.
Hello Again, I’m not a lawyer, but doesn’t the second memo, acknowledging the error, trump the possible Million Dollar first memo?
Possibly. Its getting quite confusing factually.
<sulks>Stupid facts.</sulks>
IANAL, but wouldn’t the first memo remain effective for proving a hostile workplace, even if the second memo took out some of the sting? The way I’m reading the actions of the real HR-type and Angie is that they’re trying to do some CYA, without actually changing the threatening tone that Mrs. the Rhymer has encountered.
Which is still hugely BS.
So they rescinded the write-up for having the pornography, not reporting it in time, and the veiled threat, or just the veiled threat?
I think some supervisors there need a refresher course or three.
How did Mrs. Rhymer handle the first memo? Did she sign anything?
I am not a lawyer, and I have not been in HR in 10 years, and my degree is not in HR, and I’m obviously not neutral. But here’s how I read it.
Dickless Wonder and Jimmy are friends. DW is obviously an asshole; Jimmy is apparently an idiot. Upon getting wind of my wife’s complaint, DW asks his friend’s help in dealing with the uppity nigger bitch who’s both passing for white and trying to get him fired. “Sure!” Jimmy says. “She’s obviously spineless, so if I threaten her with a firing she’ll probably drop the whole thing, and after a while we can probably make her blow the both of us!” “Cool!” DW says.
So they work up this reprimand without consulting HR or Angie. Stupid mistake number 1. Stupid mistake number 2 is to actually file that memo with HR. Maybe they tried to sneak it into the file without telling anyone; maybe not. But obviously HR has reason, even without knowing the reprimand, to be looking at my wife’s file. Something like this:
“Hmm,” James was thinking, “before I write up this report on this harassment claim I better make sure I know Mrs. R’s service date. Good thing that file cabinet’s right there.” Seeing the memo, he thinks, “Hey! What the hell is this? What the hell is Jimmy thinking?” So he takes the reprimand to Angie, whose response is “Oh, Jesus God. I am surrounded by idiots. They might as well have given her signed blank check. Must handle this fast!”
Oh, Og, this is better than a Pit meltdown.
Has her supervisor had a history of being less than professional her?
I am not a lawyer, and I have not been in HR in 10 years, and my degree is not in HR, and I’m obviously not neutral. But here’s how I read it.
Dickless Wonder and Jimmy are friends. DW is obviously an asshole; Jimmy is an idiot. Upon getting wind of my wife’s complaint, DW asks his friend’s help in dealing with the uppity nigger bitch who’s both passing for white and trying to get him fired. “Sure!” Jimmy says. “She’s obviously spineless, so if I threaten her with a firing she’ll probably drop the whole thing, and after a while we can probably make her blow the both of us!” “Cool!” DW says.
So they work up this reprimand without consulting HR or Angie. Stupid mistake number 1. Stupid mistake number 2 is to actually file that memo with HR. Maybe they tried to sneak it into the file without telling anyone; maybe not. But obviously HR has reason, even without knowing the reprimand, to be looking at my wife’s file. Something like this:
“Hmm,” James was thinking, “before I write up this report on this harassment claim I better make sure I know Mrs. R’s service date. Good thing that file cabinet’s right there.” Seeing the memo, he thinks, “Hey! What the hell is this? What the hell is Jimmy thinking?” So he takes the reprimand to Angie, whose response is “Oh, Jesus God. I am surrounded by idiots. They might as well have given her signed blank check. Must handle this, tout suit!”
Stupid mistake number was not to take into account my wife’s Popeyeish frame of mind. (“I’ve had all I can stand, I can’t stands no more!”)
Her titular supervisor, I am told, phones in his job, leaving the actual management of the department to his most senior employee.
I don’t have any legal advice, but financially I’m rooting for you to take a tire iron to this company’s groin. And a hearty backslap to your wife for standing up for herself, and - whatever the outcome - making these jackasses sweat.
This is a Pit meltdown. It’s just happening in IMHO. 
Want me to refresh your popcorn?
(With all due apologies to Skald, and Mrs. the Rhymer - I’m not trying to trivialize your pain, but there’s something fascinating in seeing entrenched stupidity at this level…)
Maybe she can get both Jimmy and DW fired and get promoted.
No butter, OtakuLoki…watching my weight.
Yup, with them asking for the return of the write up they made a serious boo-boo. If your wife hasnt already, I’d be taking home every piece of paper and not keeping anything there.
If wife files a retaliation claim with or without a harrassment claim, I wonder if any of those jerks will lose their jobs via the company owner/board of directors. If I owned a company and a relative via blood or marriage put my company at risk like that they would be out the door just as soon as my lawyer cleared it.