These seem like very valuable observations to me, Dangerosa. Thanks for writing them.
Fair enough. You form that opinion based on your understanding of what I wrote, I form mine the same way. You disagree with me, I disagree with you.
My reading comprehension is pretty damn good, part of what I do for a living is re-writing complex stuff into plain english. I’m fully aware that tone and intent often doesn’t come across well in writing. Some of your further elaborations in this thread make what you were trying clearer, although I do respectfully suggest that you need to be a little less sensitive to perceived criticism.
back to the main topic, I can get what you’re saying about how your wife suddenly feels like a failure, being a good mother isn’t how she measures her own self worth but she’s facing the prospect that is all she has.
I support the call for counselling. Look around, it doesn’t need to be expensive or ongoing, more likely a session or two with someone to pick over what’s going on in her head and help her with some tools and techniques to help her to sort herself out.
I appreciate the way you put it. I agree completely. I do apologize, though, for using that language in this forum.
Meh, Astro said some really mean things about me. The internet’s like prison, you know. You can’t let that stuff slide. Especially if you’re caught in a moment of vulnerability.
As for your reading comprehension, I don’t doubt that it’s awesome. I simply think it somehow slipped in this particular case. I’ve said things in the thread previously giving reasons for believing that Astro’s reading is a misreading.
It seems impossible, in any case, for anyone to say on the one hand that they agree with Astro, and on the other hand to “support a call for counseling” for my wife. Agreement with Astro should imply a belief that she’s just fine and if anyone needs counseling it’s me. And also, it seems impossible to agree with Astro and at the same time to treat me with any particular gentle kindness. This is my main reason for suspecting you don’t agree with Astro even if you think you do. I suspect you somehow got from his post just the idea that I am overreacting. But his post contained much, much more than that. The overreacthion point isn’t even particularly central to what he said.
I don’t think it’s impossible that this could help, but I really don’t presently see a way to bring it up without it backfiring. But it’s keeping in the back of my mind for just in case.
Regarding the counseling COSTS specifically, it may help if a primary-care doctor does an official recommendation for a session - oftentimes that recommendation will be covered by insurance when a regular “I realized it on my own” appointment would not be.
If not, many if not most counselors and therapists are well aware that people are not often financially well off, and a mention of circumstances is often all it takes to work out a payment plan or reduced charge.
I don’t know if she’s depressed or anxious normally, or just bummed by a very sad life event. No one can tell that from a message board.
I will say that I’ve suffered from an anxiety disorder all my life, and that very mercurial “everything is *ruined *for ever” feeling of failure is amazingly familiar. I would stress out about not performing to standards I set, then when I fall short, or sabotage myself, I feel shat upon by the universe - all because my body is wired to process normal levels of stress as terrible affronts that have to be gotten rid of.
I will ALSO say that even if she is “just” bummed out by a sad life development, there’s no reason to consider that a reason for NOT going to a therapist or counselor for a session or three. I think people would be a lot better able to navigate life if they considered a (good!) therapist more like a regular car tune-up rather than an emergency tow-truck.
Dude, seriously, let it go. Either that or take it to the Pit, but I think just letting it go would be a much, much better idea.
I am happy to discuss it with anyone who is interested in the issue.
Oops, the abovequoted is wrong–you didn’t say you currently agree with Astro about these things, Stui. So never mind that.
I don’t know your wife, Frylock, but I agree with others who said the dyscalculia thing sounds like an excuse. It’s her way of admitting she no longer has the passion for pursuing a photography career. By blaming it on a learning disorder, she’s not really “giving up” in her mind. She’s merely accepting her limitations.
It sounds like both of you are overachievers who don’t want to merely have jobs. You want meaningful careers that fill you with a sense of accomplishment and purpose. Quitting photography seems like a major deal because this was supposed to be Her Big Thing, just like your graduate studies were. But in truth, she doesn’t have to have a Big Thing to be happy. She doesn’t have to have a title. She doesn’t have to stick with a certain dream just because you did. The pressure she’s been under probably comes from feeling like she needs to prove something to herself. But it’s also possible she wanted this dream to make you happy. Possibly relieve you of guilt about her staying at home?
I agree with others that the photography dream seems like it has become as much your dream as hers. And this is why she’s blaming her desire to quit on a learning disorder.
What I would do is not even bring this up with her for a couple days. Then, when you do talk about what’s next for her, be as light as you can without coming off as belittling or indifferent. Treat her “revelation” as a minor development, not a crisis or problem, and then be supportive as you discuss her future plans. Even if you think she’s being unambitious, don’t try to get her to reconsider photography or some other dream pursuit. She needs an open mind and a low pressure atmosphere. If she’s anything like me, she needs to feel like however she chooses to make money, you’ll be happy, proud, and understanding.
I doubt anyone but you is particularly interested in how angry you are at astro over the posts he made back on page one. He doesn’t even seem to be participating in this thread anymore. If you’re mad enough to Pit him then Pit him, but you’re basically just hijacking your own thread by going on and on about it here.
Am I going on and on about it? We could check. It’s an empirical claim which could actually be answered objectively. How many posts of mine on the topic are not in response to someone apparently interested in discussing the topic? You could count the posts if you like, if you’re interested.
Well anyway, as I said, I am interested in discussing it with anyone else who’s interested in discussing it.
Thanks for the advice, ywtf. I know your intentions are good. For whatever it may be worth, she provides the ambition in this situation, not me. If anything, I’ve tried to dial it back in the past (though since those times I’ve learned just to let things be for the most part…). Again: I do not push concerning this, she does. But anyway, I’ve said it enough times, if you don’t already believe it there’s no reason for you to believe it just because I repeated it again.
It is my dream that she be happy, not that she have a career, or that she be a photographer, or anything else. Literally and only, it is that she is happy. She has told me what her happiness would consist in, and has told me, now, that the thing her happiness would consist in will not happen, and has shared with me her disappointment about this. And so–I’m also unhappy. That’s the story, not the one you and others have created out of whole cloth about a pushy husband and his poor wife looking for any excuse to get out from under the thumb of his unfair ambitions for her. That is nonsense. It has nothing to do with anything whatsoever.
I’ve said that for the last time, I think.
But anyway, I do know you mean well in your post and I thank you for your kind intentions.
Frylock, you are literal to an astonishing extent. It appears to blind you to nuance, and that has little to do with subcontext; you don’t appear to be grasping CONTEXT at all. At first, I just thought that you were extremely defensive, but after reading this thread in entirety I wonder if you are (willfully?) obtuse. I feel exhausted, and that has little to do with the time and more to do with feeling as if I’m suffering death by figurative paper cuts.
… In other words, I don’t need to do a post count to tell you with a very reasonable degree of certainty that in context of this conversation, you have brought up your objection to Astro (who no longer appears to be engaging you) TOO MANY times. It is very off-putting.
Every time he’s brought up astro, it’s been relevant. Every time it’s been in response to someone trying to tell him that astro was right. You are the one ignoring context, as most people on this board tend to do when it doesn’t agree with their opinion. You had an emotional reaction to Frylock, and then looked for things to back it up.
That’s why the literal people on this board have value. They can provide a more rational way of looking at things. You’d know that if you’d lurked longer instead of just jumping in when you don’t know anyone here.
Since you’re a Doper, I’ll make it simpler for you. He’ll let it go when you guys let it go. Stop trying to convince him that astro was right, and he’ll have no reason to tell you that he was wrong.
… Or perhaps the fact that I do not know anyone here, and am unaware of past and present behaviors and/or grudges (and I do not have a dog in this fight) could have the effect of my opinion being more impartial?
Same. I’m a chemical engineer and after more than 10 years studying chemistry from grade to graduate school and a 20 year career, there are, uh… five elements whose atomic weights I remember by heart, and that’s without decimals or one tops (C 12, H 1, O 16, N 14, Cl 35.5). For anything else, I have a periodic table.
That doesn’t mean I think that she has to pursue a career in photography: she has to do whatever she wants, within her possibilities (my go-to example to show that “you can be whatever you want” doesn’t hold water: as a 5’5" woman, all the practice in the world won’t see me playing in the NBA). And, like me signing up for Photoshop classes when I have no intent to use it professionally, maybe moving photography from “intended career” back to “hobby” will let her enjoy it more than if she felt the obligation to reach some specific level.
Probably confirming your assessment here, I need to say I’m not sure what your post has to do with the post you were responding to. Can you explicate that for me?
Egg. Damn. Zacktly!
I felt like it would be silly and unproductive for me to point this out myself. I am so glad, BigT, that you posted this. Seeing someone else say it instead of me should (“should”) have an effect here…
Yes, I think this sounds right.