I don’t give a damn whether you keep the dog or not. I was not argueing that. Of course if you don’t want a dog, don’t keep it. I was simply responding to some comments i felt were out of line.
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AND, if it got hit by a car, so what? It’s just a dog! Now, if it was a person I’d worry about that.
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And i wanted him to clarify this statement.
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*Originally posted by lunapark *
**I don’t give a damn whether you keep the dog or not. I was not argueing that. Of course if you don’t want a dog, don’t keep it. I was simply responding to some comments i felt were out of line.
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AND, if it got hit by a car, so what? It’s just a dog! Now, if it was a person I’d worry about that.
I thought I clarified it very well thank you.
I believe that xploder had to know exactly what kind of reaction he would get when he said he wouldn’t really care if the pup got smacked.
He didn’t exactly have to make that statement. In fact, he didn’t have to tell us about the pup in the first place.
If it is a strongly held opinion, he doesn’t have to justify it to us.
Maybe he told us about the pup and his lack of concern with the pup’s fate for a reason.
I wonder what that reason was?
I think you guys might find this old thread interesting. Are animals as worthy as people? If that’s not the exact title, it at least conveys the premise fairly well.
One might ask the same of you.
Good. If I can piss off an asshole, I’ve had a successful day.
Funny, I say exactly the same thing to people with stillborn infants.
pldennison, You have the right to make any comment you want. But you could have been more creative. just because I have my own belief about some thing you call me an asshole…where is the justifacation to that?
Funny, I say exactly the same thing to people with stillborn infants.
Let’s see, whats wrong that comment. First off animal dont care if thier offspring die(some species do) some of them even eat thier first born. If your comparing human reaction to animal reaction, you are sadly mistaken about it.
Oh, I’m sorry, I should have been more specific: “Asshole” denotes a person who refers to me as an “animal rights bullshit loving person.” See, some of us believe that animal rights are not “bullshit.”
If we’re going to do this, do you want to have the same rules or different rules? Think carefully, because I can assure you you won’t like my rules. If you choose the same rules, you have no reason to complain about being called an asshole. The expedient way to avoid it is not to be one.
Anyone who would say something this dumb has either never had a pet or raised it poorly, which is why I said: “Funny, I say exactly the same thing to people with stillborn infants.”
Individual pets are no more interchangeable than individual children are. I have 3 cats at home, and they don’t even act like each other. I value them each for they way they do act. If they are not even interchangeable personality-wise, why would a completely different pet simply be a replacement?
Some? I’d wager “most.” Certainly among the mammals. Considering your probable ignorance on the current state of study in animal intelligence (did you know that parrots can categorize based on attributes? and that chimps can count?), I’m not going to take your word as gospel in the field of animal behavior.
Dogs and cats? No. Sorry. No reasonable person
Whatever.
Hey, look, some of you are free to be as cruel and callous as you want. When one of you has lost a pet that has been a valued family member for 10 or 15 years to cancer, or an accident, or a degenerative nerve disease, then maybe you can comment with a little more experience and knowledge behind you. That dog you see laying on the side of the road? That was someone else’s pet. Somebody loved that animal. It wasn’t a toy, or an inanimate object. It was a living thing with a unique personality. Someone valued having it around.
The value of pet companionship to one’s mental health (and, in some cases, physical health as a result–see the current programs providing time with companion animals to the elderly) are so well-documented as to be unquestionable. What a pity some people take it for granted, and treat pets as disposable.
I can leave this thread here if you guys are done bellowing, “bullshit” and “asshole.” If you’d like to continue hurling invective, let me know before you post again and I’ll move this to the pit where you’re free to be nearly as belligerent and bellicose as you wish.
Mmmm’kay? Thanks.
[Edited by UncleBeer on 08-15-2000 at 01:24 PM]
**
What a disgusting comment! I hope you didn’t think that was funny because it wasn’t. And it certainly isn’t helping you get your point across.
Maybe you should read the entire thread before responding, Rachelle. Since you obviously didn’t, I clarified that I was meeting absurdity with absurdity, when I said:
As far as getting my point across, it was made apparent to me long ago that, as regards this topic, the great majority of SDMB posters are not only not interested in my point but are in fact rather contemptuous of it. So, I takes 'em where I can gets 'em.
F.Y.I. I read the whole thread! Anyone who would say something as dumb as that has either never had a child or else thier child isn’t as important to them as their pets! I agree that pets are individual animals with their own personalities but comparing them to children in any way, shape, or form, is absurd! Especially comparing the loss of a pet with the loss of a child! Gimme a break!
Someone, and I’m not naming names, doesn’t understand the concept of syllogism.
I am astounded that you managed to end every sentence in that post with an exclamation point!
Who was comparing animals with children? Not me. I was comparing the loss felt by a pet owner to the loss felt by a parent.
I’ll relay your thoughts to my mother, who raised two children and who lost her dog, a companion for 12 years, several years ago. I’ll let her know how absurd she was for crying over it and refusing to get another pet, since she considered it a family member.
Looks like someone is trying to be insulting. Not doing a good job either.
There’s nothing wrong with my using exclamation points at the end of each sentence. They are used to convey strong feelings which is what I was doing. Also, why don’t you go back and read my post again because I said nothing about comparing children and pets. I said
Obviously this is a bit of a semantic argument, but I’ll address it anyhow.
I cannot convey how much more devastated I would be at the loss of my child vs. the loss of my cat.
IMNSHO, anyone who grieves as deeply for a PET as they would for a CHILD should seek immediate psychiatric help.
I used to work at a veterinarian’s office. A couple had a dog, who had gotten old and died. It was a toy poodle, 19 years old. For the next SIX MONTHS they came in almost EVERY DAY to try to get the veterinary staff (who were all trying to help animals who were still ALIVE, thank you) to sit and grieve with them and pray that Little Pookums was happy in Doggie Heaven.
We can agree that veterinarians and veterinary staff are, on the whole, animal lovers, right?
The STAFF…including the DOCTORS…actively wished (to each other, not the couple in question) that these people would get over it already.
I’m not saying it’s wrong or invalid to cry over a pet. Not in the slightest. When my cat was ripped in half before my eyes by two neighborhood dogs with a shitty, negligent owner, I cried my eyes out. However, and I hate to resort to any kind of personal attack, it takes a SCHMUCK OF THE FIRST WATER to compare the death of a DOG to the death of a CHILD.
Whatever. Grief is grief. The fact that the object of grief is nonhuman makes it no less valid.
I’ve said my piece. Y’all can go back to discussing how animals are all identical and replaceable with each other.
Not to beat a dead horse or anything but who said that animals are ALL identical and replaceable with each other?
#1 - Each person reacts to grief differently - to say that another person reaction to a loved ones death is incorrect, be it an animal or a person, is pointless and cruel. There are unhealthy reactions to grief, but if you feel that someone is grieving in an unhealthy manner, point them in the direction of a trained professional, don’t tell them they are wrong or stupid for their reaction.
#2 - Phil was not trying to compare the death of a pet to the death of a child. He was trying to say that telling a pet owner who just lost a pet that “It was just a pet, you can get another one” is just as rude and cruel as saying to someone who had a miscarriage - “Don’t worry, you can always have another one”. And it is rude and cruel. I realize that some of you cannot understand this, but many of us do love our pets and have a unique relationship with each one, and to lose one is painful.
Phil - I don’t get into GD, so I haven’t seen much of your posting, but what I have seen tells me that you have a great deal of intelligence, and support some good causes. So if I may, I’d like to give you a piece of advice. Quit using abuse to try to get your point across, it doesn’t work. Instead of convincing people of the rightness of your position, it causes them to entrench even further into their position. Your whole last post was a series of ad hominem arguments which have nothing to do with the matter at hand - it annoyed me and I’m on your side. Your other arguments had a grain of truth, but that grain was overlayed with abusive messages that alienated the people you were trying to convince.
As far as animals not being family members…
My cat, that I’ve had for sixteen years, died this morning in her sleep. In a way, it was a blessing, as she had two strokes and couldn’t move (she only had her second one yesterday, so it wasn’t like she was in pain).
That cat has meant a LOT to me. She was there when I got scared in the middle of the night when I was little; when my aunt died; when we moved; when I got picked on; when I was dumped. She never judged me, or told me off, or told me I was stupid, ugly, etc.
No, losing a pet isn’t the same as losing a child, I’ll grant you that. That said, it still fucking hurts like a bastard. Pain is pain.
I don’t take in strays either-it’s too dangerous. But, to say, “it’s just an animal,” is fucking harsh.
Animals DO have definite personalities. And they are DAMN smart. We have two other cats and a dog, and they are all different. They are all unique.
Moderator’s Notes: Hamadryad, dammit. Did you not read the warning I posted above, or did you just think it didn’t apply to you? Not two hours after I posted a message rebuking others for making personal insults you go ahead and do the same damn thing. And by your own admission you knew you exactly what you were doing. I’m also pretty damn sure you knew that type of thing was inappropiate in this forum even before I posted my warning.
Please consider this an official admonition. Futher posts in this vein will earn you a suspension. Do NOT do this again in my forum. You do not want to piss me off. There’s a lot you can get away with in here, but this ain’t part of it. Got it? Good.
If I see any more personal abuse here, I’m gonna lock this thread. I won’t even bother moving it to the Pit. If any of you wish to continue with the stupid insults you’ll have to start a new thread there to do it. Have I made myself sufficiently clear?
[Edited by UncleBeer on 08-15-2000 at 04:42 PM]
One thing xploder didn’t tell you is that he’s got four kids (I’ve hired two of them to babysit my own kids). He knows full well the difference between a pet and a child. He understands that every once in a while, you have to say “no.” If my cat or dog (I have one of each) got loose and someone kept it without even trying to locate me, I’d be hurt too. He’s said he’s going to try & find the owner.
As much as I love animals, and as much as I believe that animals deserve more rights than they get, I understand that I can’t keep every stray I see. Goddess, how I’d love to give them all a home. I have taken in two stray cats (both now deceased), and it’s been a wonderful experience. But there comes a point when one just can’t do it anymore. What you’ve already got (kids and/or other pets) must take priority.
Phil, the first time you made the statement about the stillborn infants, you let it stand alone, with no explanation. Not good. I’m glad you came back & explained what it meant, because the way you said it the first time, it certainly did appear to be one of the single most outrageous comments I’ve ever heard. Regardless, one simply cannot compare the loss of a pet to the loss of a child. yes, losing a pet is painful. Very painful. But I have lost a few pets throughout my life. I have also suffered a miscarriage, and relinquished a newborn infant for adoption. As one who has been there, there is absolutely no comparison. None. When my first hamster died when I was twelve, I was very sad. But I got a new hamster a couple of weeks later. When the family dog died, I was really, really sad, because we’d had her since I was 2 years old, and I was 16 at the time of her death. But we got a new puppy a few weeks later. When the stray cat who adopted us two years ago died this past Father’s Day, I was very sad, but we got a new kitten three days later.
Pets die, and they die much, much earlier than people do. When a child dies, we lose the opportunity to raise what we hope will be a valuable member of society, not just a household. With the embryo I miscarried, I will never hear the gleeful shout I heard from my daughter yesterday when I told her I was going to enroll her in school, nor will I get that from a pet. I will never experience the funny stuff, either, like I did just a few seconds ago, when my daughter came out of her bedroom, butt-naked and wearing her underwear on her head, deliberately trying to make me laugh. Pets don’t do that on purpose. Sure, I could put a pair of underwear on my dog’s head, but he’d be a little miffed, and it just wouldn’t be the same.
Pets need more people like you, Phil, people that have the time and energy to fight the good fight for them. If you lived closer to me, and I knew of a pet that needed a home, you’d be one of the first I’d think of to call. But there just is no comparison between the loss of a pet to the loss of a child.