Myers-Briggs

If it is valid why shouldn’t it be used to improve the workplace?

The whole thing just strikes me a pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo.

You are an XXXX, except that if you disagree then you’re not, except that XXXX only describes you sometimes and the rest of the time you are everything else. And if you think the test is pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo well then that is a characteristic of type XXXX, so obviously that is what your are now, but when sleeping you will regress towards your mean as shown on the test. And for now we have put on a team with other introverts of your type so get back in your cage now.

The only thing I disagreed with strongly in that link was the first paragraph where 4 x 2 = 16! (obviously a typo)

Moe:

How did you confirm your conclusions? Were the studies blind and controlled? I’m not trying to be a nit-picky jerk, here, it’s just that astrologers make the analogous claim that you do, about being to tell a person’s sign. We both agree that astrology is inaccurate, but you will acknowledge, I’m sure, that many astrologers are completely sincere in their assertion. You and I must therefore conclude that people have it in them to fool themselves about this sort of thing, right? That’s why I ask you how you tested your impressions.

[And in the larger picture, whether ANY of this stuff has been rigorously tested.]

INTJ here, but really close to ENTJ. My last employer had all new employees go through a MB evaluation. After all was said and done, you were given a card to set on your desk or hang on the cubicle wall. This was to help you “understand” the type of person you were talking to. Even the VPs had to have their cars displayed. It seemed to work fairly well.

Wow. 30 seconds after being told that I would have had a letter of resignation on my bosses desk. Might as well ask my to put my ideas on god and faith on my cubicle wall as well.

After all, that could help people decide how to interact with me.

ISTJ
Lord help me to relax about insignificant details beginning tomorrow at 11:41.23 am e.s.t.

ISTP
God help me to consider people’s feelings, even if most of them ARE hypersensitive.

ESTP
God help me to take responsibility for my own actions, even though they’re usually NOT my fault.

ESTJ
God, help me to not try to RUN everything. But, if You need some help, just ask

ISFJ
Lord, help me to be more laid back and help me to do it EXACTLY right.

ISFP:
Lord, help me to stand up for my rights (if you don’t mind my asking).

ESFP:
God help me to take things more seriously, especially parties and dancing.

ESFJ:
God give me patience, and I mean right NOW

INFJ:
Lord help me not be a perfectionist. (did I spell that correctly?)

INFP:
God, help me to finish everything I sta

ENFP:
God,help me to keep my mind on one th-Look a bird- ing at a time.

ENFJ:
God help me to do only what I can and trust you for the rest. Do you mind putting that in writing?

INTJ:
Lord keep me open to others’ ideas, WRONG though they may be

INTP:
Lord help me be less independent, but let me do it my way.

ENTP:
Lord help me follow established procedures today. On second thought, I’ll settle for a few minutes

So I’m reading this book, “From Dawn to Decadence” about the history of Western culture since 1500.
And he talks and Montainge and Shakespeare and the invention of the character, as opposed to the type, in literature.
Like Odeipus was a type, Everyman from the Medival morality plays was a type, and Hamlet was a character. Three demensional,complicated, contains contradictions.

Well, I think we’re all Hamlets.

'Course, if you try to plumb the depths of the soul of every person you come in contact with you’ll go crazy. So typing people can be very helpful. But ultimatly…I’m a IENSFTPB&J

Sassy, LOL.

AP no, I didn’t conduct blind, controlled studies, nor did I perform statistical tests on any results. I simply gave the test to friends and much more often than not I predicted their results right on the money. I am curious though, and I wonder if there have been such controlled studies performed. I’d imagine there would have to be for a personality indicator that’s been around for this long and has become as widely used as it has. But I dunno.

obfusciatrist, it shouldn’t be used in the workplace simply because it has little or no bearing on one’s ability to perform their job, and furthermore it would make (I think) people neurotic dealing with each other. You don’t need to constantly be concerned with how to deal with this particular person as opposed to that person. It shouldn’t be used as a substitute for getting to know people through normal everyday interpersonal contact.
The thing that it is important to understand is that the MB types only indicate preferences. N’s for example prefer to use their intuition to make sense of things over the sensory info they receive from the external world. That doesn’t mean they never use their senses to interpret the world. Also these preferences can change over time, either by themselves or through work.

OK, I honestly don’t know if the test is valid. Yes, astrologers will sware by the stars, and I probably sound just like one.
hedra does your friend have anything to say on the validity of the MB types in the form of controlled studies?

Moe:
I have a book called “Type Talk at Work” by Otto Kroeger with Janet M. Thuesen that discusses MB types and specifically (obviously) their applications in the workplace.
It’s interesting that you said that about starting things and not finishing them, getting into fads, searching for “quick-fix” spirituality, etc. as characteristics as INFP’s because that pretty much describes the antithesis of me. Although I’ve always tested as a strong INFP, I’ve never had any of those characteristics; however, I do match almost exactly what the author’s of the book I mentioned say about INFPs. Examples:
“INFP: Making Life Kinder and Gentler…Whether leading or following, INFPs work best and are more productive when the effort reflects some ideal or service…Clearly INFPs are best when whatever they’re doing serves their personal values…For the INFP reflection and comtemplation are couples with a preference for abstract, futuristic, imaginative perception of the world. They make decisions subjectively, based upon personal values, but such decisions are more directed toward keeping thier own house in order than toward overtly controlling others.”
And it goes on, and on, and on.

It also mentions that INFPs tend to get promoted out of their ideal environment, i.e., they start out in lower level support jobs, which they’re well suited for, and get promoted into management or administration jobs that don’t let them exercise their need to have their own ideals and values fulfilled.

As for the validity of types, in the book it says that “typewatching” has roots in Jungian psychology. Jung, apparently, pioneered the idea of there being different psychological types. Katharine Briggs was a student of Jung’s and worked with her daughter, Isabel Myers Briggs, observing and developing ways to measure different type styles. The pair developed the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator during WWII after observing that many people were working outside of where their types indicated they would be best suited. It doesn’t specify what kinds of “rigorous scientific tests” they performed although it does say they performed them. It also says that neither Myers nor Briggs were psychologists (although they worked with Jung). You be the judge! :slight_smile:

I’ll check - She doesn’t have email, but I’ll be seeing her tomorrow evening.

IIRC, it is hard to do ‘control’ studies on anything that is self-assessed. How would you identify a control group? Have people take it who don’t know who they are? Or controlling for perception of outcome by telling people the wrong type and seeing if they agree with it?

More to the point, many people find it useful. I’m sure some people get bad test results (my friend indicated that once you KNOW M-B, testing becomes inaccurate, because you are more prone to fudging answers toward the type you’d LIKE to be).

It reminds me to a significant degree of ‘getting your colors done’ - IF the results are reasonably accurate, yes, you will be able to identify colors that don’t conflict with your natural coloring. But that doesn’t mean you necessarily look like crap in other colors, nor that everyone with the same color ‘season’ will look as good in the same colors as you do. is it based on scientific evidence? Sure - visual perception/color theory has been around for HOW LONG? If you contrast certain colors, the ‘apparent’ hue of one or the other color may shift. Yellow next to orange ‘appears’ to be a different color than yellow next to white, even though ‘technically’ the color yellow is identical. The color of your teeth near something orange will look different than the color of your teeth near somthing purple, etc. USEFUL, but you live by far more than JUST what type you are, JUST what color season you are.

M-B is based on observational typing. Is it accurate? I would say ‘reasonably’ based on my EXPERIENCES only. Far more accurate than any other kind of typing I’ve encountered (some of my honors psych classes explored all SORTS of typing…). Should it be the FOUNDATION of how you deal with anyone, work or otherwise? Should you rely on that exclusively? Definitely not.

There are a lot of other factors that are relevant to how people relate. Still, I’ve only seen it used to enhance someone’s understanding of others. It provides a set of terms that are defined in very specific ways, so are less open to interpretation on an individual basis. That means that my manager, who finds one of my co-workers REALLY annoying, can apply the terms of M-B to this woman, and grasp that 1) the trait that annoys her is the opposite of her own (and therefore is probably not ‘bad’ just way different from how she does things), and 2) there is value to the trait that seems so annoying. Since management and assessment for promotion is usually HIGHLY subjective, it is a real advantage to have what would be otherwise annoying traits valued without judgement (or at least with LESS judgement!). This is why M-B (and a bazillion other methods) are used for analyzing personality types and traits in the workplace. In a very fuzzy world (management) it makes things a bit more objective. When management becomes perfectly scientific, I am going home. I like things to be reasonably balanced - neither a strict accounting of number of words written, nor a popularity contest.

Ofuscarist, I will ask to see if there are any controlled studies. I doubt it. However, JUST because they may not exist does not mean it doesn’t work. Most of medical science has (up to the last few decades) been discovered by observation and trial and error. Yes, there’s some utter garbage that resulted, but there are also a LOT of accurate things. The lack of a controlled trial does not NECESSARILY nullify the accuracy of the results. It just suggests we proceed with caution. I suggest you store it in the ‘theory’ rather than ‘fact’ box, along with everything else non-biomedical in psychology.

I hadn’t asked for controlled studies (though if there are any, I’d be interested in their results).

My experiences do not support using M-B as a accurate tool, but I don’t care too much either way. My beef is not with the existence of the test (which is likely quite useful in a psychological therapy type of setting), but rather I am bitching about the way the test is used.

Everytime I’ve seen the test administered there is always a caveat that the test should only be administered by trained psychological personnel, but “we are going to do it just for fun” and then they encourage it to be used in all sorts of ways that I find offensive.

I agree that it should be done ‘for real’ by real trained professionals if you are going to use it ‘for real’. PERIOD. Of course, that means PAYING a real professional, and how often do companies like doing that? Fortunately, my company usually ponies up the cash when they want to do something like this (I had been tested professionally before I came here). So, yeah, I certainly wouldn’t want the ‘el-cheapo’ version to be the basis of anyone’s assessment of me and my traits/abilities, let alone my manager’s. The shorter versions don’t give enough range of questions to show the real range of traits, even if they usually give the ‘general tendency’ results for anything you are particularly strong on… which people could probably guess without the test anyway.

I must have misremembered on you asking about the controlled studies - my bad on not checking EXACTLY what you were looking for. Did someone else ask me for that? I’ll have to read the whole thread again now… sigh. Later. I have to go pick up my son.

INFP as well–nice to see so many others with the same type :slight_smile:

I find the test useful for personal insight, but not particularly relevant in life. I think that getting to know a person is essentially becoming familiar with their ‘type’ and learning how best to deal with it. Very rarely do you meet a person on the street with an INTJ sticker on their forehead and a handy reference manual.

Careful. You’re giving Congress ideas.

Opal has a collection of these at her site:
TeemingMillions Personality Page

I, by the way am an ENTJ, and am surprised to see so many like me here. :slight_smile:

Carry on then.

I’m taking the “real thing” next week…we’ll see how it differs from the Keirsey online deal.

I’m (not all that surprisingly) an Idealist/Champion. ENFP. Not real focused but pretty darn bubbly. All is well because people rock and I just gotta be me.

oops forgot to post my numbers… (stop laughing I know its typical, no I didn’t do it on purpose…)

E->9/10
N->10/10
F->10/10
P->8/10

For the record, I’m not a big fan of “personality tests”, etc. but they don’t bother me either.

I’ve taken the MB 3 times over the past 15 yrs; all through work, all performed by a trained person. I’ve varied a few points but come out INTP every time. (Only remember the Introversion scale because I’m practically off the scale.)Yet my work is contant, intensive people contact; go figure.

Maybe we just had good presenters, but they all stressed that the test indicated preferences, not hard realities. Overall I’d say the process helped in getting people talking to one another.

–>shrugs<-- Nothing to get up over either way, IMO.

Veb

Fan of personality tests checking in here. I’m actually taking a class on personality measures this upcoming semester, as I’m so fascinated by them.

I guess one of the reasons I like them so much is that I’m pretty variable (F characteristic?), so I like pinpointing what I currently am and being able to describe it. (discrete boundaries… that’s… S, right?)

So, when I’m describing myself, I say that I’m an IXXP, which is what I tested as the only time I’ve taken the written version (straight from the book). Strongly I, tend to gravitate a little toward P, the others vary by situation. A friend who tested XNTX joked that together, we’d make up a whole person.

I just took the version given in that link (which, IIRC, was the exact same) and got INFP (both N and P barely, F moderate, I strong), which feels right to me at the moment.

And, even though I love taking these for fun, comparison, and self-insight, I also would not want anything career-wise decided with these. It’s the same feeling I get for things like the SATs - the decisions are far too important to be decided by a test. Tests, IMO, are just mesures of how well you test and hoe you’re feeling that particular day.

I usually test as INFP, but the I and F are always so close to borderline that I’m sometimes ENTP, or INTP, or ENFP, or whatever. Keirsey would describe me as an XNXP

Thanks to Medea’s Child for making…err, encouraging me to, take the Kiersey test.

I tested as an ISFP. Not surprising, but I probably would have guessed ISTP.

I 9 of 10 (no wonder why I’m so dull at doperfests)
S 6 of 10
F 6 of 10
P 7 of 10