Thank you. And my response is the same.
I believe it should end too. Again and again and again I have offered to accept Cisco’s definition for purposes of the discussion. That should end things, but for some reason that’s not good enough.
I used dictionary.com, and I quoted the definition for “Hispanic” as a noun. And no, I did not ignore the adjective definitions. Here’s all 3 definitions:
I’m not pretending it’s the final word on what “hispanic” means. Again and again I have taken the position that there are different definitions for “hispanic” Again and again I have offered to accept your definition of “hispanic” for purposes of this discussion.
And yet you insist on pretending that I am rejecting your definition. Please stop strawmanning me.
The thing is, you aren’t responding to me. You are responding to a demon in your head who (apparently) continues to claim that “hispanic” necessarily includes Brazillians.
And just to follow up on this post, I should have made clear earlier that my dictionary contains more than 1 definition for “Hispanic” For what seems like the millionth time, I concede that there are multiple definitions and that by some definitions, brazillians are not hispanic.
Thank you!
I am so sick and tired of the ridiculous, and seemingly carved in stone notion, that being white is somehow an automatic, instant, and magic silver bullet to success and prosperity (I WISH! cuz if it is, mine is an Awwwwfully slow silver bullet).
FWIW my ancestors were either dipping herring out of the Scandinavian seas, or herding sheep in the Yorkshire Dales or Scottish highlands during slavery with nary a black person in sight (though someone, once we got to America, was having a hot torrid affair with a Cherokee, so I do have half a drop of Native American blood in me) :D. So many thanks for understanding and pointing out that “white does not equal ancestors were slave owners”.
I’d like to see at least a couple of things that are part of a “white” culture. I only have things like terrible food and bad teeth as part of my ancestry (brits :D).
Blacks for one…
I like watching BET, I adore Queen Latifah and Vivica Fox movies. In a recent one, “Beauty Shop”, there was a white character who was a good friend of the main character, all of the black girls in the shop were constantly berating her because, among her many white faults, supposedly “white people don’t understand discipline…y’all have timeouts…WE got the switch, and there was hell to pay if you tried to pick a dried one…” and so on. Let me tell you, I had to pick my own switches too, and there was also hell to pay if I tried to cheat and pick a switch that was too dry.
I was cracking up over all of the discipline lines partly because I lived through it also, but at the same time I was thinking, “where do they get the idea that all white people are all standing around saying things like 'now, now Tiffani, you get in that corner and have a little time out or no chocolate mousse for dessert…”? A LOT of us picked switches and suffered the wrath of the wooden spoon just the same as black kids did!
Based upon BET blacks sure seem to see all whites as a group, with specific (and way off base) ideas of how we behave and what our beliefs are.
And again, I’ll point out that your qualifiers mean you concede nothing. Do you really think the rest of us can’t see this? Or is it possible that you are too dense to understand the difference between:
- I accept your definition for the purposes of this discussion.
- I was flat-out wrong and your definition is correct.
Cisco showed you clearly that Brazilians are NOT considered Hispanic, by themselves or by others. What is it that you think will happen if you admit you were wrong? Trust me, the world won’t end.
Tell you what. Let’s see what they think over in GQ.
Umm… how sick and tired can you get of something that has absolutely never been said?
You do understand the rather profound difference between “an advantage” and “a guarantee”, right?
And again, no sane person thinks that “white” = “descended from slave owners”. But y’all have fun burning those strawmen.
I understand the difference. #2 doesn’t apply here.
Let me ask you this:
(1) Do you agree that there is more than one dictionary definition of “Hispanic” out there?
(2) Do you agree that under at least one such definition, “Hispanic” includes Brazillians?
I’m well aware of that. I usually
Fine, but please do answer my questions so I can understand your position.
errr, that should be “I usually admit it promptly when I am wrong.”
Then I guess there are quite a few “insane” people complaining about whites out there. There were a couple on Doc Phil a few years ago, (along with a much more reasoned Michael Steele ) who demanded that “whites pay them restitution and send them back to Africa”. Michael Steele sort of got them to realize the advantages they enjoy by living in the US.
As to the difference between advantage and guarantee". No! really? Did you read my post, did you see where it isn’t ME that doesn’t understand the definitions of the two words, but instead my point is that there are those who complain of how easy white people supposedly have it, merely by virtue of being white?
At any rate, have it your way, we don’t have some sort of automatic magic “advantage” either. There are plenty of white people who struggle just as much as minorities, being white doesn’t put a damned thing in a person’s pocket. I’ve been in as many horrible financial difficulties as any minorities have been. As have many of my family and friends. As have a lot of white people I don’t even know all across the country. Appalachia isn’t exactly Silicon Valley. A perfect example of how being white isn’t being advantaged, merely by virtue of being white.
As to “something that’s absolutely never been said”? Oh for heaven sake. You’ve been hiding under a rock your entire life if you haven’t seen this sort of attitude widely touted by a number of average citizens, as well as the media, particularly Hollywood. Such as the movie, which I used above as an example. Black comedians are another good source. I’ve never seen one black comedian who didn’t make his/her very first joke about how “100 years ago, I’d be on a slave block” etc. The inverse of course, is that whites are somehow privileged untouchables. White people never get stopped by police for instance, or if we do, it’s always a completely civil exchange with the white person getting off scott free of course. Yes, yes…it’s supposed to be funny, psychologically speaking though, jokes are often anger in disguise.
There is a huge faction of the black community (not that I’ve heard so much from my generation, mostly the younger generation) that is not at all shy about voicing their opinions regarding how “things come so easy to white people”. Like repo woman here:
Course, my bad, she doesn’t actually SAaaay “white”. But she’s talking on the phone to a big corporation, obviously “the man”.
Despite the fact that black and minority people are fully integrated into all walks of life, have every opportunity a white person does, and have proven it with not only the top spot in the nation but with top spots in business, in entertainment and every other part of real life, there is still the heated outcry of racism. A woman on a leftie radio show the other day stated that “blacks will never be loved and accepted in America”. Ummmmm 
What exactly is it we need to do to prove you already are, leave?
So yeah, it’s out there, and if you don’t see or hear it, you’re turning a blind eye and deaf ear to it.
By the way, I agree that – by and large – Americans with a European appearance do enjoy some advantages which non-whites do not. (Not always, of course. For example, if you are looking for a university professorship, it’s usually a huge advantage to be non-white.)
I’m not saying it’s right, it’s just reality.
- Yes
- I have seen no such definition.
Here’s one:
Care to change your answer now?
CanvasShoes, if you believe that the folks on Dr. Phil are a representative sample of the population, you should maybe try getting out more. I’m not the one living under a rock. :rolleyes:
No.
And furthermore, about that definition you keep clinging to: it’s a bit like defining a wrench as “a thing used to adjust the brakes on a 1967 Volkswagen Beetle.” True, but so far from the whole truth that someone who has studied wrenches and has a reasonable understanding of what they are is going to laugh at the guy who clings to that deifnition.
How can you possibly think this bolsters your argument? While Latin America includes Brazil, it is FACTUALLY NOT of Spanish descent, which is the root meaning of the word Hispanic.
I don’t think this can be explained any more clearly or simply, so I’m not going to try. You have chosen not to see it, I can’t make you.
I asked you a simple question, which did not deal with root meanings.
I will repeat it:
Do you agree that under at least one such definition [of the word "Hispanic], “Hispanic” includes Brazillians?
Such a simple question.
And here’s another question, which will help me understand your position:
Is it your position that in determining the correct definition of a word, one should prefer root meanings to actual usage by some significant subset of the population?
i.e. You don’t want to answer my simple, reasonable question.
OH MY GOD JUST DROP IT ALREADY. Seriously, take this somewhere else. Absolutely no one wants to watch you do this for 5 more pages.
I don’t know what to tell you except that you are wrong, as shown by the definition I quoted in Post #114.
There does appear to exist a dictionary definition of “Hispanic” which includes Brazilians.
To extend your analogy, let’s suppose that lots of people use the word “wrench” to mean “a thing used to adjust the brakes on a 1967 Volkswagen Beetle.” Enough so that it enters common parlance and is even included in a mainstream dictionary with that as one of the definitions.
Then let’s suppose you use the word “wrench” in a debate and somebody understands it to mean “a thing used to adjust the brakes on a 1967 Volkswagen Beetle” The reasonable thing to do would be to tell the person "No, by ‘wrench’ I meant something else. And one reasonable response would be “Fine. I understood the word ‘wrench’ differently from the way you intended. Let’s use your definition of wrench.”
At that point, it becomes unproductive and unreasonable for either person to insist that his definition is right and the other person’s definition is wrong.