Mystery Mafia -- Game Thread

[TexCat]

@lilflower

How does that not add up to you thinking he was telling us to continue to target ourselves? And again, you are voting for him for a bad idea (calling it “promoting a bad idea” is semantics) which I think is lazy.

Unvote: MykBot
Vote: lilflower

Mykbot said targeting yourself is “still on the table”. I said he “was recommending it as a viable option.” Those two statements seem much the same to me.

You said "TexCat goes on to say that Mykbot is telling us all to target ourselves every Night which he clearly is not. " That statement is totally different, and not at all what I said.

And again, I [del]am[/del] was voting him for a bad idea AND that knew (or should have known) was a bad idea. Now I am voting you for first grossly mischaracterizing my post and continuing to do so.

[NAF1138]

@Blaster_Master

Okay, just finished the first page, but I’ve already got a couple things to say.

First… wow. Dude, BAD idea that seems like a good one. Yes, it provides information to the town that we might be able to use, but it provides even more information to scum. It runs a severe risk of outting important roles, particularly the doctor. I don’t think knowing who the doctor is helps the town at all, but it’s very valuable to the scum.

Imagine this scenario, the scum target a player, whether the targets are given the day before or the day after, they can potentially eliminate everyone who targetted that person as a doctor if they die. Or imagine that person survives, they can potentially assume that one of the people who targetted that person is a doctor.

Now, of course, there’s a lot of complications to this, like potential redirections, roleblocking, and all that, but with the additional information that scum have, including that they can lie about their targets, I don’t see how it helps.

It’s the best read I see on the first page, so…

vote NAF

Also, another comment is I see the people calling out MykBot for a “soft-clear”. I don’t really get it. From my previous experience, though it’s counter-intuitive, it’s generally better practice to look for townie tells and eliminate them from your votes than to look for scum tells and vote for the scummiest.

Consider that, especially on day one, any vote, with the exception of scum and possibly whoever got a night result, will be not a whole lot different from pure random. As such, if one can eliminate certain individuals with some decent reason, one reduces the pool in which that randomness is selected, thus improving the chances of hitting scum.

That said, I generally don’t agree with publicizing soft-tells because they’re generally not particularly useful to anyone else if you’re town, but can be used coercively by scum for pro-town rubs when those individuals are lynched. However, considering the culture difference and that it seems others have said it’s something he does, if he reevaluates them later and they don’t give any credence to those rubs, I see it primarily as a null-tell.

Anyway, more to come, even though this is probably all outdated later in the thread…

I will be really interested to see what you think when you keep reading.

Thanks for voting for NAFbadidea[sup]TM[/sup]

[Scuba_Ben]

@Idle_Thoughts

I think giving ANYONE a “town lean” (especially on Day One) is baffling. I have no idea how many games you’ve played in previously (although I assume it’s a lot and that you’re not new to the game), but I don’t understand how anyone can give anyone else a town lean.

I think doing something like this is something that could most likely lead to coming back to bite you in the ass, if one is Town. Just ask Scuba Ben, in Cult of Sekham if you don’t believe me. : p He certainly had a “town lean” from me for most of that game, which turned out to be pretty unfounded in the end. So much for town leans being effective.

I remember Sekham, including your advisory to me on Day 1 that helpful analysis != Town.

a. It was my first or second game.
b. I feel that my skill at reading Scum hasn’t improved much since then. :sciencefail:
c. I still intend to avenge that incident, you scummy Cultist.
d. IIRC, I got lynched Day 2.

(note: Once I have a current-game reason to vote, I refuse to drag past games into the mix. I just use past games as a flimsy excuse for a groundless opening vote when there’s nothing else to go on.)

[Suburban_Plankton]

@Drain_Bead

Since we can’t Night-strategize, I wanted to throw this discussion point out there. As Town, should we be trying to target people we think are Town tonight, or people who we think might be Scum? My inclination is to try to target Scum, as I can think of only one role I might have that could actively hurt in that situation (Doc) and a lot of roles I might have that would help (blocker lol, vig, cop, watcher/tracker, etc.). Is there anything I’m not considering here?

I think that since we don’t know what are powers actually do at the moment, it’s premature to say we should do one or the other.

If you’re a Vig or a Roleblocker, you should target someone you think is Scum. If you’re a Doc, you should target someone you think is Town. If you’re a Cop, then it doesn’t matter much at this point.

But since you don’t know what you are, and you don’t know what anyone else is, I can’t see where anyone’s ‘best judgement’ is much better than a coin flip Tonight. Perhaps Today’s lynch will shed some light on things, but that’s probably a longshot.

[Dancecat]

@Drain_Bead

Since we can’t Night-strategize, I wanted to throw this discussion point out there. As Town, should we be trying to target people we think are Town tonight, or people who we think might be Scum? My inclination is to try to target Scum, as I can think of only one role I might have that could actively hurt in that situation (Doc) and a lot of roles I might have that would help (blocker lol, vig, cop, watcher/tracker, etc.). Is there anything I’m not considering here?

I missed this at the bottom of yesterpage. I think it’s better to target scum suspects, since that’s where we want our vig shots and roleblocks to land. It’s better if the role revealer targets villagers, but I can’t think of any strategy which allows us to adjust for this that doesn’t completely screw us over otherwise (apart from only small powers saying that their role has been revealed after getting targeted by the revealer).

@NAF1138

Please explain fully.

Ok. I think that Krayz has been wolfy. However, the peek he left is one that I know for a fact is correct, since I know my own role. If he had left a peek/breadcrumb/whatever of any other player, my suspicions would remain largely unchecked since I couldn’t personally verify whether or not the peek was good. But I can, so it gives me pause. Of course, he could be scum and have perfect information about my affiliation, and he made that fakepeek/breadcrumb because he knew I would react like that and be less likely to vote him because of it, so it then becomes a bit of a levelling game. I think you guys call it WIFOM. And of course, if he is scum, players might be more likely to incorrectly think that we are teammates and he was defending me. Make sense?

[Suburban_Plankton]

@septimus

This sounds like the Mod’s way of informing a substitute of his prior actions, not the “special N0 action.” I’ll guess the special n0 action might just be for a power which needs its state “primed” for Day 1/Night 1.

I think this is a very good observation. **Pizza **told us “I was creeping around liliflower’s bed last night, or so I am told.” It makes sense that the Mod would inform him of the Night Action attempted by his predecessor, so I think it’s likely this is all the information was intended to convey. **PetW **targeted lilflower on Night 0, and either their action was not successful or **Pizza **has decided not to inform us.

[Inner_Stickler]

@TexCat

Unvote: MykBot
Vote: lilflower

Mykbot said targeting yourself is “still on the table”. I said he “was recommending it as a viable option.” Those two statements seem much the same to me.

You probably shouldn’t have used the verb recommending as I suspect that’s what lilflower is basing her opinion on. Listing would have been a better choice as ‘still on the table’ makes no judgment about the action, but ‘recommends as a viable option’ implies preference, ie. in this list of viable options I recommend you X.

[NAF1138]

@Dancecat

Ok. I think that Krayz has been wolfy. However, the peek he left is one that I know for a fact is correct, since I know my own role. If he had left a peek/breadcrumb/whatever of any other player, my suspicions would remain largely unchecked since I couldn’t personally verify whether or not the peek was good. But I can, so it gives me pause. Of course, he could be scum and have perfect information about my affiliation, and he made that fakepeek/breadcrumb because he knew I would react like that and be less likely to vote him because of it, so it then becomes a bit of a levelling game. I think you guys call it WIFOM. And of course, if he is scum, players might be more likely to incorrectly think that we are teammates and he was defending me. Make sense?

Huh. Interesting. So you are saying that because he might have had the role that actually returned a result, and that because that result might have been a cop result that he might be bread-crumbing an investigation (just want to be sure I am translating correctly).

Out of curiosity, since I didn’t read the last game, was there anything in the last game that would lead you to believe that the first Night action that did return a result was a seer type action?

[NAF1138]

Also, can anyone explain to me why in the world a wolf would go around acting the way Krayz has? I thought one of the common ideas that both groups agreed upon was that townies are more likely to do bizarre things and that wolves try to blend.

This all goes out the window if this is totally alien behavior for Krayz, but I am inclined to give him a Day 1 pass just because his behavior is so out in left field.

[Dancecat]

@NAF1138

Huh. Interesting. So you are saying that because he might have had the role that actually returned a result, and that because that result might have been a cop result that he might be bread-crumbing an investigation (just want to be sure I am translating correctly).

Out of curiosity, since I didn’t read the last game, was there anything in the last game that would lead you to believe that the first Night action that did return a result was a seer type action?

Yes and yes. Typically, in our games, seers/cops always have a n0 action. If there was only one action that took place n0 in this game, it would not surprise me in the slightest if it were a cop’s investigation.

[NAF1138]

@Dancecat

Yes and yes. Typically, in our games, seers/cops always have a n0 action. If there was only one action that took place n0 in this game, it would not surprise me in the slightest if it were a cop’s investigation.

Gottcha.

[Dancecat]

@NAF1138

Also, can anyone explain to me why in the world a wolf would go around acting the way Krayz has? I thought one of the common ideas that both groups agreed upon was that townies are more likely to do bizarre things and that wolves try to blend.

This all goes out the window if this is totally alien behavior for Krayz, but I am inclined to give him a Day 1 pass just because his behavior is so out in left field.

See, that’s the thing. The way Krayz is behaving isn’t consistent with his town game, but it’s not exactly consistent with his scum game, either. Although since a lot of us from the other board are having to make adjustments to the play style over here (and unsurprisingly, different people are doing that in different ways), it could be a function of that more than a function of his role. He’s clearly not himself, but it’s almost impossible to say why that is.

[Scuba_Ben]

@Dancecat

Ok. I think that Krayz has been wolfy. However, the peek he left is one that I know for a fact is correct, since I know my own role. If he had left a peek/breadcrumb/whatever of any other player, my suspicions would remain largely unchecked since I couldn’t personally verify whether or not the peek was good. But I can, so it gives me pause. Of course, he could be scum and have perfect information about my affiliation, and he made that fakepeek/breadcrumb because he knew I would react like that and be less likely to vote him because of it, so it then becomes a bit of a levelling game. I think you guys call it WIFOM. And of course, if he is scum, players might be more likely to incorrectly think that we are teammates and he was defending me. Make sense?

Bolding mine.

It seems to me that revealing oneself as a Seer/Cop too early is generally a bad idea. Also, IIRC this is the first game on the Dope with N0 actions.

There’s a third possibility. Krayz and Dancecat might be masons that have to spot another mason to find out. In other words, a mason may need to target another mason to identify that player as a mason.

Dancecat, I suggest you consider the usefulness of targeting Krayz Tonight or the next Night. If masonry exists in this game and works kinda like I’m guessing (and taking from a post a few pages back), it would be worth knowing at some point.

Aaaand this opens up a possibility of false mason claims. Would anybody care for the wine in front of me?

[NAF1138]

Huh. I am stumped as to what to do with that information.

Ok, well I am sticking with giving him a pass for toDay, and Ed stays near the top of my list while oddly I am feeling like softclearing you for the Day for thinking like Ed. I think my problem is I can’t figure out why Ed pinged me so hard, but he really really did.

I’m inclined to give town points to BlaM for his kneejerk vote against me for the NAFbadidea[sub]TM[/sub], but want to wait to see what he has to say when he checks in later.

[Gadarene]

MODERATOR NOTE

With respect to the original Mystery Mash game played at the other forum, it’s fine to describe the kind of roles that game had in your own words. Quoting specific role PMs from that game, however, is not permitted. And, as always, do not assume that any particular aspect of that game is present in this game. Other than, y’know, the whole thing about not knowing what your night action does.

[NAF1138]

@Scuba_Ben

Aaaand this opens up a possibility of false mason claims. Would anybody care for the wine in front of me?

Which means that this game is broken from the start. If this game has a masonry that works that way…I hope it doesn’t.

[lilflower]

@TexCat

Unvote: MykBot
Vote: lilflower

Mykbot said targeting yourself is “still on the table”. I said he “was recommending it as a viable option.” Those two statements seem much the same to me.

You said "TexCat goes on to say that Mykbot is telling us all to target ourselves every Night which he clearly is not. " That statement is totally different, and not at all what I said.

And again, I [del]am[/del] was voting him for a bad idea AND that knew (or should have known) was a bad idea. Now I am voting you for first grossly mischaracterizing my post and continuing to do so.

You voted for him for suggesting that targeting ourselves is a viable option, correct? How would you not consider this scummy (i.e., worthy of a vote) if it was not a suggestion on how we play this game going forward (i.e., every Night)? In other words, suggesting it for Night 0 (which has already passed and is therefore a moot point) shouldn’t be considered scummy. Suggesting it for all Nights going forward would (if you are the type of player who is going to vote for someone for a bad idea). Ergo, I assumed you were voting for him because he was suggesting something that we should do going forward. I don’t see it as a mis-characterization but rather an extrapolation from your original comments.

In any event, I still don’t see how a player’s bad idea warrants a vote. As I said before, throwing out suggestions (no matter how bad they may seem) is something that generates discussion and doesn’t necessarily have to come to fruition. I don’t think that scum would bother trying to get town to do something that is pro-scum (not so much a “scum wouldn’t do that” but more of a “why would scum bother”). I am also bothered by those voting for **NAF **for the same reason.

[Suburban_Plankton]

@Silman

also Suburban Plankton is a villager, whoever that is, but for a much more secret reason I’ll get into later (maybe, if you’re lucky. I wouldn’t worry about this till later)

Would someone from the ‘Other Board’ please explain to me what I’m supposed to do with this statement?

This reads to me as “I’m a Cop/Seer ad I investigated Plankton last Night, and he’s Town”. Of course, that would be a stupid thing to say at this stage, so that makes me think “ah, fakepeek”. But then there’s the ‘magic bag’ thrown in, along with the “I wouldn’t worry about this till later” disclaimer.

In any other game here, everyone would be leaping down **Silman’s **throat right now for making such a ludicrous statement. In this game, people aren’t, presumably because it’s not so ludicrous. That much I get…what I don’t get is why his statement ‘makes sense’.

[Blaster_Master]

I see the NAF has since abandoned his idea with further discussion. I’m willing to give benefit of the doubt on that.

unvote NAF

The interaction between Idle and dancecat seems off to me. That is, his initial statement seems sort of off logically, but so does her reaction to it. I’m not really sure what to think of it, so just consider both of you FOSed at this point. Maybe something about it will better materialize as I keep catching up.

BTW, do we still use the term FOS here? I haven’t seen it in this thread yet, which seems to mean maybe it stopped getting used.

[Mahaloth]

This thing is moving way too fast for me and I can’t believe Day ends today. Krayz is the only one pinging me. Peeker is being his usual distracting self, but that’s just him.

**Vote Krayz **