Good movie. I didn’t really get the ending though.
What the hell is with Sean Penn’s wife’s speech at the end? Why does Sean not seem to feel remorse over killing Tim Robbins, and what’s with his wife’s weird megolamaniacal bent?
We see that Katie’s Boyfriend (Brendan?) finds out that Deaf Brother took the gun. What was he talking about when he kept saying “I know you can talk?” Apparently he can’t, because we never see him talk.
Tim Robbins got old.
My take on the wife’s speech was that she is specifically boostering Penn’s ego so as not to let him get debilitated by his remorse over killing his friend. She points out to him that he has two other daughters who need and rely on him and that the way she calmed them down was by letting them know their father would DO ANYTHING to protect them (even, I’m sure she doesn’t bother to mention to them, if he is mistaken in his “anything”) and therefore in a way what he did was a good thing. She doesn’t come right out and say it was a good thing he killed Dave, but certainly that he is willing to take even drastic actions to protect his family is presented to Penn as a very positive attribute that he shouldn’t feel sorry for. I seem to remember Penn’s face looking a bit less troubled and distant after she says this and he hugs her.
As far as the deaf brother talking, I’m going to assume he can talk if he really wants to and the brother knows this, but for whatever reason the part with him actually saying something ended up on the cutting room floor. Perhaps it was his voice in the 911 call, and Eastwood decided later not to use that detail as it wasn’t really needed (or something). Bottom line, it didn’t really matter if he could talk or not (at least in the final version of the movie), so I’m not going to worry over why Brendan yelled that at him.
I think Tim Robbins’ aged, ragged look was sort of part of his shambling, Sad Sack act.
Sean did feel remorse for killing the wrong guy, and his wife’s Lady Macbeth routine was indeed to lift his spirits but also to encourage him to take strength from his act, and rule all he surveys (his extended family, his neighborhood etc.)
If you read Dennis Lehane’s most excellent book, you’ll get more insight into the characters’ childhoods and motivations, but really, Eastwood (and adapter Brian Helgelund) did a fine job bringing the novel to the screen.
I agree 100% with richardb on Annabeth’s speech. He pretty much said it all.
As far as the brother talking, my take was that many deaf people can talk, but many who can choose not to (ala Children of a Lesser God). He certainly wouldn’t have been the one to make the 911 call (how could he have heard the question about the name?) and it was the friend on the line.
I thought it was a good movie, but had a few too many “Hollywood” conventions for my taste (swooping crane shots, swelling music, other minor details here and there) which didn’t make me like it less, but tempered my enthusiasm. The acting though, was brilliant. Sean Penn and Tim Robbins should both be nominated for Oscars, and Penn might finally get the one he’s deserved for a couple of decades.
It made me want to read the book now. It’s a shame that far too often, I don’t get around to reading a book until after the movie is out (“Seabiscuit” is another recent one) but I suppose, better late than never. I always end up liking the book better anyway.
The worst thing about the movie was those horrible reddish “anti-piracy” dots that took me right out of the movie. ARGH! More people should be complaining about that. The studios are ruining film prints on purpose!
What are reddish “anti-piracy” dots?
The film should have ended when Jimmy (Sean Penn) says: “The last time I saw Dave was when he went up this road in the back of that car.”
Everything after was superfluous. The sub-plot with Sean’s (Kevin Beacon) silent wife should also have been excised. Added nothing.
But really, what are these reddish “anti-piracy” dots you’re seeing?
There were several things about the film that bothered me, and I’d love to hear anyone’s perspective on any of them.
Thank you for your comments.
There was lots of good stuff in the film, also–camera work, acting and so forth, but the questions are making me nutz.
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*Originally posted by NoCoolUserName *
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They did indeed end up going their separate ways, but the separation might well have been encouraged by Dave’s abduction. Sometimes events like that can tear friendships apart rather than bring them together. Regardless, they were all affected by what happened to Dave–but Dave was obviously left permanently warped.
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2) Annabeth’s speech comes out of nowhere. Sure she was making sure that Jimmy’s concience wouldn’t mess up the family, but there’s nothing anywhere before that in the film that gives a hint she’s like that. Isn’t that what foreshadowing is for?**
I understand your confusion; having read the book, her speech did not come so out of left field for me. Remember Annabeth’s blustering father in the beginning of the movie,at the wake? Remember Annabeth’s brothers, the Savages? The name Savage about covers it. This is not a nicey-nice family that Jimmy has married into.
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3) What was the point of the sub-plot about Sean’s missing wife? I’m right with you, randwill, I didn’t get it. I have to assume it has some deep meaning because Clint kept it in, but the meaning didn’t make it over to me.**
The way I read this situation was as one of disassociation, alienation.
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4) Was Dave abusing his/some kid, or was he so confused that he didn’t know what he was saying? Was he just referring to his previous self as “kid”? Were we supposed to feel that his death was justified or in some way better than him staying alive?**
Yes, he was referring to himself as the kid. And yes, I took it that it was better to die than remain his live, tortured self.
Likely some other Doper will be more articulate than I, but this, FWIW, is my take on the movie.
Ah! I had no idea that Anabeth was related to the Savage Brothers. That explains a lot.
Some of these things are mor elucidated by the book. They were all affected by Dave’s abduction. Sean (the Kevin Bacon character, not Sean Penn) was motivated to become a cop largely by his feelings of helplessness and guilt over his inability to stop Dave’s abduction. Jimmy (Penn) was already on the edge (he had an abusive father in the book) but spun out completely against authority after the abduction. Dave was obviously broken emotionally.
Caprese nailed it with Annabeth. It doesn’t come across clearly enough in the movie that she is a Savage.
Kevin Bacon’s wife was waiting for an apology. It’s only when he finally says “I’m sorry” at the end that she finally starts talking.
The thing with “I know you can speak” was in the book too but the kid didn’t speak. It was more like just a way to illustrate Brendan’s enraged and irrational state of mind.
I agree that this could be the movie that finally wins an Oscar for Penn but Robbins was quite good too.
I saw this, it was okay, but i thought i was ~20 mins too long. It seemed to pick points and drag drag drag. The overall story was pretty good, Robbins was terrific. I did figure out the deaf kid did it around the time we found out the brother was leaving town with the girl, which was distracting.
The best part was when Robbins got in the car with the Savages and Eastwood used the same shot of him looking back out the rear window, just like he did when he was a kid.
So much of the book takes place in the characters’ minds that it’s hard to make things clear in a movie. If you hadn’t read the book, you’re confused about who The Kid is, you have no idea why Celeste is so afraid of her husband that she rats him out to Jimmy, and you don’t know how truly amoral Jimmy is. So I was kind of disappointed in the movie, but I did think that Sean Penn and Tim Robbins were fantastic!
One of the niggly things that bothered me about the movie was this: the dead daughter was both shot and beaten. Yet, when her body was found, there was no sign of beating. And she looked pretty fine in the morgue and in the funeral home.
Two questions:
Where was the movie shot in Boston? I’m pretty sure that “Buckingham Flats” and “Rome Basin” are made up, but I kept trying to orient the action based on the frequent views of the Tobin Bridge (from the end of the street where the kidnapping happens). My guess is the view is from the south and the actual location was East Boston.
What was the actual murder motive? Was it as Kevin Bacon paints it (initially the gun went off by accident, and then once they’d shot her once they decided to kill her so she wouldn’t talk). Or was Brendan’s brother trying to kill her so that Brendan wouldn’t leave him to go to Las Vegas?
Addendum to (1.):
Where was that park where the body was found? I didn’t recognize it.
I just saw this movie and I have a few comments:
I see a few people refer to “the deaf kid”, but my impression from the movie was that he was not deaf, but mute. I seem to recall a few instances where Brendan spoke to him when they weren’t facing each other, most notably when he called to him in the market when he was leaving. I thought that the younger brother couldn’t speak, but could hear perfectly fine. I think this is borne out by the comment (I forget by whom) that Brendan signs to his brother even though he doesn’t have to, just to make him feel less like an outsider.
I, too, was bothered by the speech at the end by Annabeth, however the part that bothered me most is that she seemed totally remorseless about Dave’s death because she thinks that Celeste deserves to be alone, because “…who says things like that about her husband?” Creepy.
I was a little surprised that they put such an innocuous spin on the murder as well. I definitely came to the conclusion during Brendan’s fight with Silent Ray that Ray had killed her in order to keep his brother from leaving him. When Sean said that it was all an accident, I gave a bit “Huh?”
The movie seemed to imply that Sean wasn’t even going to investigate Dave’s disappearance. I thought that this was odd.
I agree that the movie could have just ended with Jimmy’s comment that he hadn’t seen Dave since he drove off in the back of the car. I don’t get the whole parade sequence.
As for the comment above about the red piracy dots…are you referring to the burn marks in the upper right hand corner that flash every 20 minutes or so? If so, those are standard in all films, they’re there to let the projectionist know when a reel change is coming up.
Jadis, these aren’t reel-change marks, see this thread.
Bumping up this thread because I finally saw this movie Saturday night.
Actually, I got the opposite impression from Sean’s “gotcha” gesture at Jimmy during the parade. (Not only that, there was also the matter of Jimmy’s earlier murder of “Just” Ray.)
Also, I noticed no one’s brought up the scene at the parade where Dave’s son gives his mother, Celeste, the cold shoulder when she waves at him on the float. It seemed to me this indicated that the kid was aware that his mother mistakenly fingered his father. Did anybody else think this? Was this scene discussed in more detail in the book?
I got in an argument over my sister about the gunshot gesture Sean makes at Jimmy. My sister thought it meant Sean was not going to investigate Dave’s diappearance, that the fake gunshot hand sign was his punishment and that Celeste would be mollified by the $800 payments presumably forthcoming. This sounds plausible, but I agree with NDp that it’s pretty ambiguous.
i think that a read of the book is required to fully understand, or at least be able to consider, the final 10 minutes or so of the movie. 4 topics:
The character sean said $500, not $800. Anyways, he said “are you gonna send celeste boyle $500 a month too?” Apparently sean knows jimmy killed just ray also, and sent that family money every month, and hasn’t done anything. So I don’t think he will start now. I agree with your sister, I don’t think the gun gesture was anything threatening. But I’ve seen people who read the book say it was more than that. Anyway, I just finished the movie and thought I would google what people thought about the ending. And that’s just my take…
It was pretty clear. In one of the scenes one of the Savage Brothers said Katie was their niece