Napster and Metallica

I use Napster sparingly but remember reading where they’ve blocked Metallica from being shared. A few weeks ago I downloaded “Master of Puppets” and didn’t get blocked or have any problems. I thought you would get booted off their system if you did that? Was this a fluke?

it’s only the latest version of napster that blocks users with metallica songs, the version that was released right after the reams of pages were given to napster.

old versions still work fine, but the new version does have some improvements

Look out. You’re going to get somebody started. They’ll say, “Stealing is wrong and wrong is bad, period.” Look, you’ve already got me started going on about the smug self-righteousness of the people you haven’t even gotten started yet. This isn’t going to get any better from here.

I suggest you delete this Paster of Muppets from your hard drive immediately, because if Metallica doesn’t get you, posters on this board will.

If people go after him for downloading music, I shall chase them off with a rabid wombat…

Are you saying stealing isn’t wrong? COOL!

please give me your address, the times of day you aren’t home, a description of any security devices you have installed (although I know you won’t be so much of a hypocrite as to secure your property), and the location of your valubles.

Ohhh here we go again… I say leech like a MF! Cd’s take like a penny to make, maybe Napster will lower there overly high prices.

My understanding was that they were more going after people supplying Metallica mp3s than people receiving them. I may be wrong. But I think that the former would be much easier: just send a request for a Metallica mp3, and record which user accounts come back saying that they have one to give.

But I have purchased the cassette version of Master of Puppets so I’m entitled to a digital version. I paid for the right to hear the song.

Here we go again…I just posted something on this on another thread, but can’t remember where.

  1. CD prices are kept artificially high and far beyond the price that they would naturally fall to (look at everything else technological, even the CD players themselves–you pay half of what you would when they first came out, and get twice as many features). CDs cost a major label approx $.15 to make. The only reason they’ve gotten away with it is because there hasn’t been a challenge, until now.

  2. Bands stand to gain from mp3s, used properly. Somebody on the other board talked about their band suing anybody who was giving away their music. Guess what, I’ve never heard of the band and won’t buy their album. If I could get an mp3 for free, I might like the music and buy the album. You call that stealing? Some bands are doing this (think TMBG).

  3. As for my house, I actually don’t have a security system, nor do I worry about it too much. If someone wants to pick a flower from my yard, who cares? It’s not stealing. Same idea.

::unleashes rabid wombat::

ha! :slight_smile:

Here’s another question regarding Napster. Isn’t Napster no different that a dual cassette deck? Napster isn’t providing the material. They are providing the mechanism that people use to “steal” music. If Napster is to be banned, then shouldn’t cassette recorders? What is the difference? Napster doesn’t host the content. It is going from one person to another. It isn’t Naptser’s responsibility what the users do. This is like the bongs or cigarrette papers. What you do with it is your responsibility, not the provider of the papers.

This is not a hijack, but a related question.

Where does a band make its money?

A small band makes their money from playing. They will give away their music, since it is advertizing to them. The more people who hear them, and like them, the bigger crowds thay draw and the more money they can charge to play.

For these big national acts, they get money from playing, having songs played on radio, and record sales.

Downloading from napster to try it before buying it, is not really different than listening to it on the radio. [they get paid for radio play, but they also got paid for the song on napster]. But if you burn a CD with napster songs, instead of buying a CD, you have cost the band money. If so, call a bunch of radio stations and request that they play one of the bands songs. Then they make money from the napster songs.

What percent of the bands total income is from record sales?

Granted, you may be hurting the recording company and they may come after you for making a CD from napster songs.

As long as I have my original copy of everything you take, sure.

Yep, that was me, and you’re damned right I’d sue you. The fact that you don’t want to buy the album doesn’t entitle you to free copies of the contents, in whole or in part. I can’t for the life of my figure out why you would think it would.

So why are sales increasing? Sounds to me like the market supports the price.

Like hell. In some cities, it’s “pay to play”–your band pays money to get a spot on the bill in the club. You recoup that through merchandising, like stickers and shirts and, yep, CDs. In others, the money goes to the sound man first, and if there’s anything left, the bands get it in varying splits. Sometimes it’s split equally, sometimes the bulk goes to the headliner.

Perhaps on Mars, they would. When I was in a band, I played on bills with bands from all levels to tiny local acts, to acts on major labels, to acts on successful independent labels, and never once did I observe any of them giving music away.

Hmm, so far every Napster opponent to quote me has done it severely out of context.
See, pldennison, the argument goes like this:
I’ve never heard of your band.

I won’t buy your album–the money involved isn’t worth the risk of buying something I don’t like.

Give me a song for free, and guess what? I might like it. I might buy your album. Hmm, sounds like that just benefitted you, doesn’t it? Or do you make money by NOT selling CDs?

And if it hurts bands so much, how come some support it? Are they just masochists or something?

I need to clear up some misconceptions on this thread.

Oblong said:

Then why not make your own version of the track?

Also, this reminds me of the latest idea that the powers that be shut down which I disagree with. had a “beam it” service which you could sign up for. You registered and put your CDs in your drive to be scanned. If it came up as in the database already, you would have access o it on any computer. If it didn’t, you scanned it in so you could have access to it and anyone else too. This would limit you from getting material you do not own already.

Sounds perfect to me, but the RIAA got it taken down. Pity.

In a nutshell, the industry is reacting quite aggressively to anything online these days, and that means they are taking down good ideas which are probably perfectly legal.

Myrr21 said:

You are quite mistaken, and seeing as it is on you to prove your accusation, not for me to disprove it, I would like to see where you got this information from, please.

For the record, CDs cost at the cheapest (and this is for major labels who are pressing millions of them at a time) anywhere between a buck and $1.50 or so.

Now, you are still thinking that this is too low for the large CD prices. Well, let’s look who gets their cut of a CD which costs $17 for you to buy.

Retail is paying about $9 for that CD, so your retailer gets the largest cut right off the bat. And you might also want to know that this is a retailer which also gets a bunch of money from the labels for display spece in their stores, for ads in their in-house magazines, for end-cap and front of store positioning. Do you think Sam Goody just puts up a poster for the hell of it? Or puts stuff in a display right up front out of the kindness of their hearts?

So a retailer gets about 50% of the disc - this is not to begrudge them either. They have tons of expenses that they pay, deal with theft, and all the other thinsg retailers of any product have.

Oh the rest, the artist usually makes about a buck a CD. The cost of the disc if we look PURELY at the production is, as I said, about $1.50. So you might be thinking, gee, the label gets the other $5.50 while the artist gets a buck?

First of all, the label has a deal with a distributor most likely which costs them some money off of that disc - the way these deals are structured vary so much that putting a dollar figure on it is impossible.

Also, the label is paying for everything. You think a CD just gets made and poof it’s on the shelf? We pay for the retail stuff I mentioned above. We pay for everything else too, up front. From the cost of shipping to getting the tour bus for the artist. From the cost of indies who work the record to radio and press to my salary. The label pays it all.

Yes, this is almost always recoupable expenses, meaning that they come out of the artists royalty until the artist has made the label its outlay back. However, since most artists never reach that point, the label loses tons of money - in many cases, money the artists directly got (tour support, advance, recording expenses, in some cases artists draw a salary, etc.) in their own hands.

Also, labels never get a penny of the money artists get most of their money from: touring, merchandise and songwriting royalties. While some other people may have their hands in that pot (booking agents, managers, merchandise companies, etc.), those people have NOTHING to do with the price of CDs either.

Please notice the caveat “used properly.” While I do think that Metallica are a bunch of idiots, and I do think the powers that be in the music industry are paranoid and overreative about this to a degree, the fact is that artists (and the rest of the industry) lose money IF it is not “used properly.”

The actions people are taking is all an attemot to come to some kind of resolution to properly make use of this technology and hurt as few people as possible, all within current laws which need to be adapted to these new technologies.

This ain’t easy, and beurocracy is always slow. So how about being patient while everyone gets their shit together here, okay? Trust me - All of this strife and finger pointing is just necessary growing pains as everyone tries to work together to make sure everyone gets as fair treatment as possible.

Now, how this works out as far as the consumer goes is anyone’s guess, but since without a consumer all of us are out of a job, my guess is level heads and your voice will prevail to an extent.

And they are perfectly allowed to. However, just because you are perfectly able to take your own property and give it away does not mean that you have the right to take it away from those who do not want to share it. Is this such a hard concept? Is anyone telling They Might Be Giants to stop allowing MP3’s to be traded of theirs? Is anyone stopping them?

Oblong said:

Depends. You making a copy of something for your friends or for yourself (a la a mix tape)?

Also, cassettes lose quality when you make them. And they degrade. An MP3 is as good and will always be as good as the original copy no matter how many times you copy it, and you can burn a CD from it which will also retain that quality. Big difference, I think.

Yer pal,

Three months, one week, five days, 14 hours, 59 minutes and 23 seconds.
4144 cigarettes not smoked, saving $518.12.
Life saved: 2 weeks, 9 hours, 20 minutes.

Apparently, English is not your native language, and logic is but a passing rumor in your world.

Pay attention.

I said, in the other thread to which you refer, “If I found out some schmoe was giving my music away for free, I’d sue his pants off.”

I said again in this thread, “The fact that you don’t want to buy the album doesn’t entitle you to free copies of the contents, in whole or in part. I can’t for the life of my figure out why you would think it would.”

You keep referring to promotional mp3s by They Might Be Giants as if it proves some sort of point.

See, if I choose to give you an mp3, or even a CD, as a promotional tool to interest you, that’s my choice. It’s my property, I wrote the songs, I performed them, I paid to press them, and I can do what I want with them.

If you set up a bin full of my CDs with a sign reading “Free-take one!” or if you put an mp3 of one of my songs on your computer and make it available to anyone who wants it, you are stealing from me. The dispensation of my property is MY choice, not yours.

If I discover that someone has, in fact, put an mp3 of my song where anyone can download it for free, you’re goddamned right I’ll take legal action. Or send them a bill.

How about reading, eh?
I said, some bands support the system. This includes bands other than TMBG. Moreover, some bands are backing the whole system, and offering whole albums for free. Granted, that’s their choice, but it seems to me that if it hurts them, why would they be doing it?
And yes, people are asking TMBG to stop letting their songs be traded–or at least trying to take away the means to do so. Read the frickin news. They’re trying to get Naspster shut down, not get certain artists removed from the system.


How about you start reading?

I can find a quote from lars Ulrich himself where hs says that he is not against Napster or bands who have no problem with Napster. He is against his property (and he is concerned about those who share his view about their property), period.

Cut The Pit talk, okay? Not only is it not for this forum, but you are wrong to boot.

Yer pal,

Three months, one week, five days, 15 hours, 36 minutes and 53 seconds.
4146 cigarettes not smoked, saving $518.25.
Life saved: 2 weeks, 9 hours, 30 minutes.

Satan: sorry about the Pit mention, just a wee bit aggravated. However, I was not referring to Metallica specifically–I know that they only want their music removed. I was speaking more in general–other groups fighting Napster actually want it shut down, not just certain bands removed from the system.

*Originally posted by pldennison *

A band pays to play? They must be desperate for exposure. Sounds like they would want people to hear their music.

The closest we have to that is when Dennis puts on a Band Showcase. The bar pays him and he pays for the sound. The bands play for free, it is a public audition.

Bands do give away music. I have a free CD [free printed on the CD, it was made to be free] with samples from three bands.

The Web is closer than Mars so try it for free music from bands:

There are plenty of others.

As I said before, a person listening to music from napster is no different than that person listening to a song on the radio. Neither hurts the band. Then if you like the song, buy the CD. If you don’t buy the CD, delete the file.