Nava, I can't let this go

The BBQ Pit
341

[QUOTE=marshmallow]
The aftermath of 9/11 was pretty funny. I mean come on, using duct tape to protect yourself against a chemical attack? A color coded terrorist warning chart*?
[/QUOTE]
I guess that’s funny in the same way you might laugh at over the top gore in a horror movie. What that was, however, is NOT more evidence of Amercia’s top export: stupid, sheltered, xenophobic cretins. We aren’t all like that, BTW, thanks very much.

What that IS an example of is the White House’s use of the terror attack to bring fear to the American people in order to drive them and guide them down the path the White House wanted them to go. That’s terrorism used as a cattle prod – not a simple example of American ignorance unless you count the fact that Americans allowed it to happen.

And I don’t need some ignorant piece of Eurotrash to find humor it. I’ve spent a good deal of time since 2001 closing and downsizing factories in Europe because they can’t compete. European workers are too caught up in their sense of entitlement, their short work weeks, their lengthy vacations, to change. And I’m the one who gets upset by it… the workers and the unions? They gleefully choose closure over meaningful change and cash in with generous severance packages. Do I find it “fun”? No, it’s fucking tragic. But I’m here to tell you that Americans haven’t cornered the market on ignorance.

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[QUOTE=Inner Stickler]
And all of you picking on Nava’s Spain thing should knock it off. We all have our little posting habits and you guys are no exceptions.
[/QUOTE]

You know, I actually put “Spanish” in my location and started mentioning “I’m from Spain” any time it might be remotely relevant because some people seem to find it terribly important.

Now if I say I’m from Spain it means I think I’m from God’s country, except when I happen to dislike some of our education reforms or our obsession with diplomas.

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[QUOTE=lexi]
For that matter, I don’t think I’ve heard of an actual case where someone who attacked or planned to attack the US had come to the US via Canada, although I think a couple people we arrested in Canada had come in through the US to Canada.
[/QUOTE]

There was a guy planning to bomb the Seattle space needle back around, I think the 2000 New Year’s who drove into the US from Canada and was stopped at the border. So there’s a Bad Guy trying to come in from Canada.

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[QUOTE=Princhester]
The thorough nuking of strawmen I observe in your post speaks (nay, shouts) volumes.
[/QUOTE]

Gee, I’m fucking sorry that my expression of my feelings about someone else’s post and drawing of analogies to what I would think are comparable situations does not meet your criteria for “worthy thoughts”. Go fuck a catus.

345

[QUOTE=Nava]
“fun” and “funny” have different meanings?
[/QUOTE]
‘Funny’ has different meanings all by itself.

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[QUOTE=panache45]
So you actually thought about your post before submitting it? You expected this kind of response from people, and you posted it anyway? And then you come into this thread, and come off as even more insensitive than you were before. I was trying to be fair and give you the benefit of the doubt. No more, especially when I think about the two friends I lost that day.
[/QUOTE]

I should have phrased it better, but I did intend to cause some debate. The debate just happened to go to the Pit.

To my way of thinking, a memorial which centers only on waving the handkerchiefs, without any thought to “what could have been done better before/during/after” is useless or worse. Navarra is still divided along the same political lines as 200 years ago, but our history books don’t even mention the wars from 200 years ago. One of those sides (representing about 70% of Navarrese as of the last elections) has become a Spanish-politics N-word. And yet, that ideology informs our present constantly. How much of our current world stems from 9/11? How do we serve the victims (the people who were in the towers, the soldiers, the suicidal bombers, even those whose wheelchairs can’t roll into the airport) if all we do is say “it was horrible, I was in shock”?

It was horrible. We were in shock. We had a lot of good reactions. We also had a lot of nasty reactions. How can we prevent something that horrible from happening again? How can we keep the nasty and absurd reactions from happening again and the good reactions going on? (Those “wes” refer to humanity, not to a specific group of human beings)

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[QUOTE=Broomstick]
Gee, I’m fucking sorry that my expression of my feelings about someone else’s post and drawing of analogies to what I would think are comparable situations does not meet your criteria for “worthy thoughts”. Go fuck a catus.
[/QUOTE]

You are clearly so emotional about 9/11 that (1) reading comprehension and (2) coherence go out the window, to be replaced by mindless raging based around attribution of whatever-the-fuck-you-like to the person you are “replying” to so you can beat them up about whatever it is you’ve just misattributed to them.

Your reply to Nava had that characteristic, and you just succeeded in proving that wasn’t an abberation by replying to mine in the same vein.

Why would I bother?

348

[QUOTE=Nava]
You know, I actually put “Spanish” in my location and started mentioning “I’m from Spain” any time it might be remotely relevant because some people seem to find it terribly important.

Now if I say I’m from Spain it means I think I’m from God’s country, except when I happen to dislike some of our education reforms or our obsession with diplomas.
[/QUOTE]

Absolutley. I’ve only ever seen you mention it where it is relevant; in threads about Spain or Spanish customs etc.

I don’t really get the problem :dubious:

349

[QUOTE=Broomstick]
Gee, I’m fucking sorry that my expression of my feelings about someone else’s post and drawing of analogies to what I would think are comparable situations does not meet your criteria for “worthy thoughts”. Go fuck a catus.
[/QUOTE]

Psssst! Princhester! Catus is latin for* cat*, he wants you to go fuck a cat.

No need for thanks, us guys gotta stick together 'gainst these fancy-pants inteeelectual types with their fancy latin insults :wink:

350

[QUOTE=Inner Stickler]
'Kay, we get it. You’re offended. You’re all offended. Can we stop this now? Nava made a comment. It was maybe a little silly, but honestly, was it deserving of this reaction? IMHO, no, it was not. But people expressed their outrage and tempers flared and now we can all relax and go back to what made this board great. Witty oneliners and mockery of the clueless. Not this angry gratuitous ego-massaging.

And all of you picking on Nava’s Spain thing should knock it off. We all have our little posting habits and you guys are no exceptions.
[/QUOTE]

I PM’d a mod last night to ask this to be closed, because I felt the same way. As the OP, I was looking for an explanation (and, yes, an apology) about the use of the word fun, and this devolved into all kinds of unrelated crap. I don’t know why this is still open, but I’ll try another PM or email.

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[QUOTE=lorene]
I don’t know why this is still open, but I’ll try another PM or email.
[/QUOTE]
I reported this post:* “OP reuests that thread be closed”*

352

I also read your posts that didn’t make me snot up my keyboard. Welcome to the SDMB!

Where I taught I was required (for a time) to search for a bomb when the threat had been called in. One of the schools in our neighborhood had been bombed. There was a shootout at the football game, one at a basketball game, a couple of guns in my classroom, and a student who tried to set fire to the school with duplicating fluid. A hefty bomb was found one short city block from my classroom. It was defused. The bomb squad said that if it had detonated, it would have taken out a square block. Don’t know if that one would have gotten me or not.

When I sold tickets to the football game, I was told to turn over any money I had to anyone who asked for it. One tresspasser that came into my classroom knocked me unconscious and I was in the hospital three or four days. Perp apprehended and convicted.

After I retired, I was held up at gunpoint as I left a neighborhood store. I made him give me my purse back. Perp apprehended and convicted.

It hasn’t been easy being me. I very distinctly remember reading statistics that said that it was more dangerous at that time (early 1970s) to live in Nashville than it was to live in Belfast.

Acts of terror don’t always happen to groups of people. More Americans may be acquainted with it than some Americans and some non-Americans might think.

Whatever our reactions were to 9-11 that day and in the past six years, no one can say that there has been just one “American” reaction. Some of you may be under the impression that Americans have shrugged their shoulders about what our leaders are doing in Iraq. You did not watch the same televised Congressional and Senate hearings that I did.

Something has got to give on this mindless war of no reason. Why do these women and men sound so angry, ask the right questions and still do nothing?

After 9-11, I was very depressed. I didn’t think I would ever be happy again, but I was wrong. It wasn’t because I knew anyone in the buildings. I was lucky. My compassion was for strangers. I hope that I’m never out of touch with that – even if it makes me afraid.

I don’t take the Pledge anymore. It’s not that I don’t love my country. I just try to love all of them. People are people and basically the same except for some cultural differences that can be worked out. But the important things we have in common.

Sorry if this is a mess. I’ve been up all night reading this damned thread.

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[QUOTE=Tibidabo ]
Psssst! Princhester! Catus is latin for* cat*, he wants you to go fuck a cat.
[/quote]

She!

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[QUOTE=Tibidabo ]
Psssst! Princhester! Catus is latin for* cat*, he wants you to go fuck a cat.
[/QUOTE]

Kitten!

355

[QUOTE=andros]
Ribbon magnets everywhere? Silly. Holding competitions while driving around town to see who can find the most ribbon magnets, or the most ironic use of them? Fun. The ribbon magnet reading “Support the US Ribbon Magnet Industry?” Seriously fun.

Tiny American flags everywhere, put up and proudly proclaimed by people who never took off their hat for the national anthem a single time in their lives? Fun. Watching flags attached to auto aerials gradually disintegrate over a year or two of driving? Fun.

A badly plagiarized Calvin pissing on an Arab? Frustrating and annoying. The bizarre lengths to which manufactures of t-shirts, stickers and magnets go to cash in? Funny.

Watching grannies “randomly” searched by an ineffectual and under-trained TSA? Sucks to be Gran, but kinda fun. Seeing piles of crochet hooks and nail files–and now lighters and water bottles–amassed at the security checkpoint? Fun. Getting pulled for extra screening on every single flight I fly on an employee pass because the TSA drones have a quota and know that I’ll be fast and easy? Well, not fun, but amusing.

The color-code terror chart? Fun. The giant harrumphing sounds from our elected officials? Fun.
[/quote]

All of those idiotic reactions post-9/11 (however eye-rollingly silly they may be) also include these extreme reactions…

I don’t find any of those fun at all and it makes me realize who the real nutjobs are. When you are talking to someone at work who, prior to 9/11 you had respect for, start saying “Bomb them all”, you get a little worried about how many other people hear Bush cry “Evildoers!! Let’s smoke 'em out of their caves!” and get sucked into that fucking cowboy mentality.

I think I might pick that up for my kid. George seemed to think it was quite the page-turner.

356

hijack

[QUOTE=Nava]

“fun” and “funny” have different meanings? I thought they just had different grammar. I’d translate both of them as “divertido” or “tiene gracia” (which in Spanish mean the same) and refer to the specific situation as something like “tiene gracia pero no tiene maldita la gracia” (it’s funny but it’s not funny at all). Color me going to check my m-w as soon as I can get my hands on it…
[/QUOTE]

Woah, confused! ‘‘Fun’’ and ‘‘funny’’ DO have different meanings, but I thought ‘‘divertido’’ and ‘‘tiene gracia’’ meant those two different things. You’re telling me they mean the same thing in Spanish? The exact same thing, with no distinctions whatsoever?

‘‘Fun’’ describes the feeling you get when you do something you enjoy–watch a movie, ride a rollercoaster, go out with friends, etc.

‘‘Funny’’ describes something that makes you laugh. Jokes are funny. Embarrassing moments with friends are funny.

I always thought ‘‘divertido’’ corresponded to ‘‘fun’’ and ‘‘tiene gracia’’ corresponded to ‘‘funny’’?

/hijack
FWIW, Nava, I ain’t mad at ya. I’ll leave it at that.

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Zoe–I agree. I’m not sure how we(USA) ended up here (and I am not much interested in first causes anymore)–I just want it fixed, to the extent that it can. “Fixing” doesn’t just depend upon us, though. To take Iraq for one example, they need to be willing to allow different sects of their religion to live in peace. I could use Israel and Palestine as another example, but if anything, that one is more depressing and less likely to result in peace. America has its share of shame and grace-but all countries do. IMO, it’s not that we’re “better” (in some ways we’re worse), it’s that we are the most powerful at a time when the world is shrinking rapidly. Bah. Never mind-can’t seem to express myself well. Forgot I’d said I’d bow out.

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[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
Zoe"Fixing" doesn’t just depend upon us, though. To take Iraq for one example, they need to be willing to allow different sects of their religion to live in peace.
[/QUOTE]

Which seems to show a misunderstanding of the divisions in Iraq…

It’s not just a pure religious thing, it’s also bound up in tribal, national and cultural identity.

The people in Iraq were forced to live together by the West in the first place, it’s not the way their culture has developed over 100s of years, so it’s no suprise that it’s coming to the boil after the “lid” of Saddam’s regime was lifted.

Similar to Russia / Yugoslavia - it’s about time we stopped trying to make people live in false “national” groupings simply because it makes it easier for us.

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[QUOTE=olivesmarch4th]

I always thought ‘‘divertido’’ corresponded to ‘‘fun’’ and ‘‘tiene gracia’’ corresponded to ‘‘funny’’?

/hijack

[/QUOTE]

Divertido, gracioso, tiene gracia… the grammar is different, but the meaning, to me, is about the same. There are suuuuuuuubtle differences in meaning, but the regional variations are greater than any given local differences. There’s regions where a stand-up comic would be described as “tié grasia” (Andalusia), others where “es gracioso” and others where “es divertido” (Catalonia) - they’re talking about the same dude doing the exact same routine.

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[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas]
I guess seeing the deaths of almot 3,000 people. seeing people jump from the top floors of the World Trade Centers was “fun” it you weren’t there. I call it utter fucking shit, but that’s just me. :eek:
[/QUOTE]

I agree with every single thing you have said in here, Annie. Allow me to expand a wee tad.

Fun? Let’s examine your idea of fun, shall we? When the Madrid bombings happened, this is what went down afterwards. ( yes. Madrid. In Spain. Where God smiles upon the only worthy humans on the face of the earth, according to you. Asshole.

  1. To clean up afterwards meant that people had to walk around and pick up pieces of other people. Some were huge and recognizable. Some were small shredded bits of human flesh, covered with dust and grime.

  2. The ground, which was soaked in places with blood, brains and other bodily fluids ( of Spaniards- imagine ??!!!??!! ) had to be cleansed.

We’re not even close to the World Trade Centers, which on your open-ended Richter Scale of Amusing apparently hit a 9.95.

I will give you a little window into it, shit for brains. I was there. On the morning of September 12th, exactly 6 years ago right now, I was walking down West Street with other EMT’s, Paramedics, Dr’s and Surgeons. We’d been sent to work at the on-side aid station that was being set up. We were sent down in a bus, and let out a block or two north. We walked down to the corner. It was as you all have seen.

Here’s the part that I know will just drive you into paroxysms of hilarity, my sadly misguided Spaniard friend.

It was like there’d been a blizzard in September. I wore sneakers under my jumpsuit. My new compadres and I heard that there were no medical personnel at South Ferry Terminal, which was the south-side Triage area. We walked through the Amex building, through the Winter Garden ( whose ceiling collapsed less than 3 hours later ). We exited and walked down to the Ferry.

Thick drifts of grayish material were everywhere. Up against the buildings, in the street. When you pulverize millions of square feet of sheetrock and burst water tanks ( there were many holding tanks to help with pressure in the buildings ), you get that kind of gray snow.

I looked down a lot as I walked. Do you know what I was walking through? Do you know what drifted through lower Manhattan for days and weeks? Not just sheetrock, my amused little pal.

The pulverized bodies of almost 3,000 humans. The unborn babies. The lives torn to pieces then crushed and blended in mere seconds and spewed out into the crisp air, reeking of damp Jet-A fuel and death and smoke.

You can hate Americans as much as you wish, that’s your right. What you can never do is convince any sentient feeling humane human being on this Board, or anywhere else, that the point of view that takes the violent demolition of human beings and skews it as “fun” is an acceptable way to view the world.

You may be a Doper but you sure are not a member of the human race.

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