I had no intentions except to convey the message that you’re from a country of fuck-ups and incompetents. Spain is like the Mexico of Western Europe and an embarrassment, in my opinion. Its people are stupid and poor, and its politicians are spineless cowards. Furthermore the Spanish can’t even deal with their own internal problems so the idea that we would want them contaminating America with their incompetence is laughable.
[/QUOTE]
You got turned down by a nubile young senorita, didn’t you?
[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Yes, that was a typo on my part, based on the numbers she gave. Sorry for the confusion; this thread is moving pretty quickly and I’m not proofreading as well as I should in an effort to keep up.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas]
Ferries were banned in London.?I don’t think that was the fault of the USA.
[/QUOTE]
I believe that she meant that her company didn’t allow their Spanish employees who were in London to use the ferries, not that the ferries weren’t running at all.
I read Nava’s post, albeit linked from the OP in this thread, and took it to mean exactly how she explained herself later in this thread. It was obviously a bad idea to post that thought in that particular thread but I got what she meant. It’s funny because I often have a difficult time making sense out of her posts but I did get that one.
[QUOTE=Nava]
I’m not blaming it on America!
[/QUOTE]
Wait a second. I thought your reference to **Americans ** running around like headless chickens was a reference to the over-reactions in the hours/days after the attacks.
Why bring up what happened at your office if it’s not related to over-reacting Americans.
I am not especially surprised about Nava’s tone given what I’ve heard from her in previous posts about her country vis-a-vis the U.S. The “fun” post is a good reminder that the accepted wisdom about universal European sympathy toward the U.S. post-9/11 is urban legend, and that there was a considerable righteous undertone of hostility and “America gets its comeuppance” (the 9/12/01 editorial in the Guardian being one notorious example).
[QUOTE=jjimm]
We had a metric shitload of sympathy, but I will admit that this was followed by horrified fascination about the US reaction, which was so very different to other countries when under terrorist attack: at first so very, very extreme, then so very, very schmaltzy, then so very, very violent.
[/quote]
What was “horrifying” to some was the very idea that the U.S. might actually strike back at terrorists (even in Afghanistan, to begin with), rather than simply curl up, apologize, and promise to redress the wrongs it had committed upon the world community. :rolleyes:
And yeah, I know one is horrified yet fascinated by those schmaltzy/sentimental, overly patriotic, violent Americans, but one must realize, dear, they’re just that way, poor benighted creatures.
[QUOTE=Nutty Bunny]
Wait a second. I thought your reference to **Americans ** running around like headless chickens was a reference to the over-reactions in the hours/days after the attacks.
Why bring up what happened at your office if it’s not related to over-reacting Americans.
[/QUOTE]
Over-reacting “American individuals”. Not every single American national over-reacted, not every single reaction was over-the-top.
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde]
Well you’re hear essentially crying about a few friends of yours who were inconvenienced and blaming it on America. America is a big country with a lot of people, you shouldn’t judge it based on a few managers in your company.
Just like I don’t judge Spain based on you (my already existing negative view of Spain was only reinforced by your comments here.)
[/QUOTE]
It truly boggles the mind. It really does.
Where did she say that it was the whole country? She said it was her memory of 9/11. Americans acting silly. Not every American. The ones she was talking about. She didn’t base anything on anything.
You’re not just a hateful cunt. You a stupid hateful cunt.
[QUOTE=yojimbo]
Where did she say she was talking about the US government or the US in general.
the post that led to the piting What I can see is her talking about Americans, Americans who made the decision that she was talking about.
I’m don’t really care if you tear her a new one so bad she never posts here again but the least people can do is attack her for what she actually siad not how people are bending it to mean.
It was a stupid thing to say in the context of the thread I said that in my first post in this thread. She could have worded it better or better again just keep her fucking moth shut but here we are.
[/QUOTE]
To me, the biggest immediate changes caused by 9/11 were:
[QUOTE=Nava]
Logistics managers from all over Europe had been in a 24h meeting in London. They weren’t allowed to go back home until our managers in the US got their washed underwear back… not just not allowed to fly, but take the train or the ferry. Most of the people who got stuck in London would have been much calmer if they’d been allowed to go back home and hug their families. At least the company had the decency to give them a clothing allocation.
Someone suddenly realized that my factory contained explosive substances and was in terrorist country. Gee, no shit, and it took 30 years and 30K dead 3K miles away for you to notice? So for a while we had three rent-a-cops in the factory 24/7, while before there had only been one on the 4 days a year where no production was going on.
I grew up under threat of terrorism. Watching the towers fall was ouchie, watching the americans run around like headless chickens… was actually kind of fun.
[/QUOTE]
Unless you know she works for an American company, you don’t see that. She doesn’t mention Americans (well actually americans) until the chickens with their heads cut off line.
You do realize that a headless chicken is one that has been slaughtered? Right? Their heads (the chicken’s) don’t fall off due to natural causes.
Now I’ll admit that the US, our government and members of the general population have made loads of mistakes, all in reaction or related to 9/11. Heck, myself included.
But they way that is written, there inturpetation that she had fun watching the people run in fear from the collapsing towers, is the most logical. Maybe she is a lousy writer, but her posts since then, blameing the US for ETA, and saying that the people in her country are basically braver because they have delt with terrorism more than Americans actually add to the idea that the people running in fear is what she found fun.
I remember writing in a journal on that Tuesday that I had the feeling that there were people who would be thrilled about the towers collapsing. I wasn’t thinking about Bin Laden or Sadaam, I was thinking of the people who would see it as an overdue comeuppance.
I toyed with the idea of starting a pit thread today about the unstoppable sluice of God bless this and they-were-the-real heroes that and raising the flag to full staff so it can be lowered to half-staff, AGAIN! The title was going to be, gWb commemorates 9/11 tragedy by staring at his fingernails and wondering if getting a manicure makes him gay.
In a lot of ways, I suspect that the people who are most pleased by the events of that day are the people making speeches and appearing on talk shows and in front of crowds of mourning 'Mericans.
I don’t track Nava’s posting style, but if one were to remove everything from before the ‘,’ in this thread title, it would be just as accurate.
(FTR, the original thread was in MPSIMS and while it may have skewed toward a memorial, the last line of the OP was: So what do you think about this six year milestone, the 9/11 generation, what can they teach you, what can you teach them. Let’s stay true to ourselves as all of us were this summer on the Board. Never loose sight of what really is important…everything but only in focus. After all, it’s only another Tuesday.)
[QUOTE=Nava]
Refusing firemen, medical teams and blood that are being offered to you for free qualifies as over-reaction. It was over-reaction when the Russians did it, it was over-reaction when the Americans did it, and it would be over-reaction if Spain did it.
[/QUOTE]
Just what was this over reaction, exactly? You’ve provided no examples of the United States overreacting in any unreasonable way.
Turning down donations they didn’t need? That doesn’t sound to me like running around in a panic. There’s nothing panicked about that at all.
Even when I had a job working in a huge computer facility on Scott AFB, it was well understood that I could be deployed at any time. Two years later I was stationed in Tuzla, Bosnia carrying a loaded firearm, ready to fire.
What is stupid about the comment is that anyone who’s in the military could be deployed anywhere at anytime, and as soon as 9/11 happened, everyone in the military was an active combatant.
[/QUOTE]
Nope, I’ve never been in the military. That doesn’t have any bearing on my understanding of the terms being discussed. Mr Bus Guy said that the folks in the Pentagon were non-combatants at the time of the attack. They were. Some of them almost certainly became combatants eventually, but on that day, they were non-combatants. Many were civilians.
[QUOTE=Zebra]
Unless you know she works for an American company, you don’t see that. She doesn’t mention Americans (well actually americans) until the chickens with their heads cut off line.
[/QUOTE]
What US did you think our managers were in, Brazil or Mexico?
There was a group of kids visiting the Pentagon that day those were definitely non-combatants.
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas]
I maintain you cannot compare the magnitude and unexpectedness of the attacks of 9/11…
[/QUOTE]
You forgot to say “Out of the clear blue sky.”
Unless you know she works for an American company, you don’t see that. She doesn’t mention Americans (well actually americans) until the chickens with their heads cut off line.
[/quote]
Really?
Why am I making a leap here? The managers are in the US, hmmm lets assume they are Americans as that makes sense in context of the rest of the post. . There are a huge amount of US mutinationals over here. I’ve worked for two myself.
It’s also a common expression to mean people doing things haphazardly.
I’m not defending her posts in this threads. Just arguing with people who continue to get the actual content wrong. like uummm …you.
[QUOTE=Crotalus]
NMr Bus Guy said that the folks in the Pentagon were non-combatants at the time of the attack. They were. Some of them almost certainly became combatants eventually, but on that day, they were non-combatants. Many were civilians.
[/QUOTE]
When the United States started bombing Iraq in 2003, many of the people killed were not members of the Iraqi armed forces.
Do they qualify as “non-combatants” and “civilians”? Or does the United States have unilateral authority to define who falls into those groups?
[QUOTE=Zebra]
Now I’ll admit that the US, our government and members of the general population have made loads of mistakes, all in reaction or related to 9/11. Heck, myself included.
But they way that is written, there inturpetation that she had fun watching the people run in fear from the collapsing towers, is the most logical. Maybe she is a lousy writer, but her posts since then, blameing the US for ETA, and saying that the people in her country are basically braver because they have delt with terrorism more than Americans actually add to the idea that the people running in fear is what she found fun.
That is what she fucking said.
[/QUOTE]
And now she is backpedaling, she was most certainly trying to insult America and Americans. You know, there’s really nothing wrong with that, if that’s the type of person you are. Some times insults are deserved, I personally do not think America did anything particularly insult-worthy the day of 9/11/01, all things considered. Certainly nothing as egregious as agreeing to bend over for terrorists like Spain did after Al-Qaeda struck at them.
If you’re going to insult a country, at least have the nerve to admit it when it is perfectly clear to everyone that is what you were trying to do. Playing the “oblivious” card, or trying to rephrase it such that everyone will interpret it as you being mad at “a few specific Americans who made your day slightly inconvenient” is cowardice–typical from a Spaniard.
[QUOTE=Crotalus]
Nope, I’ve never been in the military. That doesn’t have any bearing on my understanding of the terms being discussed. Mr Bus Guy said that the folks in the Pentagon were non-combatants at the time of the attack. They were. Some of them almost certainly became combatants eventually, but on that day, they were non-combatants. Many were civilians.
[/QUOTE]
Many were civilians, many were active duty personnel. The fact that you’re part of the military, on active duty, makes you a combatant in its essence. It doesn’t matter if you’re a pencil-pusher or not, you still have to train physically, you still have to fire weapons annually and qualify, you still have to study strategic and tactical aspects of warfare, and your total existence is supporting, and carrying out when called upon, an aggressive foreign policy.
If you disagree, then the point stands that 100% of those who died in Hiroshima were non-combatants as there weren’t any active battles occurring in Hiroshima at the time of the atomic bomb detonation.
those were definitely non-combatants.