Navy Questions

I’ve been working on a short ficitional story and it invovles the US Navy. I’d like to get it as close to realistic as possible given the circumstances. However, I require general information about the US Navy that I can’t seem to easily track down via web pages.

Basically,

  1. What would be the aprox. size of a Marine force stationed on board a Crusier(say Ticongera class?)?

At least, I’m under the impression that each naval ship has a small marine security force. If this is wrong, please let me know.

  1. What would be the likely rank of the officer in charge of the marine detachment for that ship?

  2. Do indiviual ships have medical staffs, or is everything handled by a hospital ship? If the former, what would be the aprox. size of a staff for a ship of cruiser size?

4.What would be the aprox. rank of whoever was in charge of said medical staff?

Please let me know if any of these questions seem nonsensical, inappropriate or show a mistaken impression on how the navy works.

Thank you.

There are: “33 Officers, 27 Chief Petty Officers and approx. 324 Enlisted.”

I was on an Adams class destroyer with a similar number of crew. We did not have a Marine security detachment. The rank of the medical staff was two E-6s, corpsman, and no medical doctor.

Now this may be different on the Tico, but I doubt it. Surely someone here has the answer?

http://navysite.de/cg/cg47.html

Just to get ya started until Tranquilis or Monty come along…

IIRC, and I think Monty confirmed this in another thread, the Navy no longer uses Marine det’s for security. This was phased out in the early 90’s.

As for med team, the Ticonderago has about 360 crew, so I’d guesstimate the med officer is a lieutenant with 5 or 6 corpsmen (enlisted).

Most US naval combatants use their own crew to provide security. The entire crew is trained to some degree or other in small arms.

In port, those crew assigned the collateral duty of Reaction Force are given much more detailed training, including ship-board tactics and, and then they’re drilled repeatedly to ensure they know how to do their jobs. Rescue and Assistance Detail, at least on the ships I served, was an adjunct to Reaction Force, and formed the core of any boarding or shore team. R&A were also trained in shipboard combat, but had additional duties, such as firefighting, medical assistance, and so on. Basically, if a team had to leave the ship to help another ship or deal with a pier-side situation, the R&A Detail took first crack at it, followed by such duty section as was required. Reaction Force never leaves the ship on their duty days. On sister-section duty days, the sister section Reaction Force might be called off the ship to provide security for such activities as moving ‘Special Weapons’.

I was a member of the R&A detail for years, serving as Counter-Sniper, Hose Team Leader, and Medical Assistance Team Assistant, as required by circumstance. In charge of the R&A detail in my duty section was the Duty Section Leader, in my case Chief Petty Officer Burdette (a real character!), and we had a total force of fifteen bodies on average. Reaction Force was handled by the Duty Weapons Officer, usually a Warrant Officer or Lt (jg), usually with a force of ten to fifteen bodies. Both R&A and Reaction Force respond to the CDO (Command Duty Officer), which is an At-Sea Officer of the Deck officer, and could be as junior as a Lt (jg), or in some cases, as senior as the Senior Watch Officer (usually the Navigator), a full Commander.

Backing all this up is the Duty Master At Arms, and the Duty Waepons Section personnel, another fifteen to twenty personnel.

What does that mean? On the ship I’m discussing, out of a crew af roughly fifteen hundred, in six-section duty (~500 per section), there is aproximately twenty five to thirty immediate responders, able to choose their muster location from the armory, or one of several sattelite armories if the main armory is inaccessable. There is an additional fifteen to twenty immediate reserves, then the rest of the duty section to call upon. Weapons range from light cannon to heavy machineguns to light machineguns to heavy automatic rifles to light rifles to handguns to PR-29s, to firehoses & fire extinguishers (very effective in some cases!), to improvised weapons of opportunity (no shortage of potential bludgeons!).

So: 40 to 50 ready forces, and then ~450 backups, commanded by a experienced deck officer, and two experienced junior officers/senior enlisted. if a special weapons move is planned, there might be an additional thirty armed-and-ready personnel guarding the weapons area as long as the move is going on, supplied from the sister duty section.

Out to sea, it’s rather different. Then, the Weapons Dept is responsible for security, the Master At Arms for internal good order and discipline, and the Flying Squad for immediate medical or fire-related emergencies.

Scale these forces by the size of the ship and crew.

All ships of any appreciable size have some form of medical department, even if it’s only an Independant Duty Corpsman (read: Highly trained, highly skilled, and cabable of handling most any casualty or illness, right up to some simpler surgeries). On the ship I’ve been discussing, we were supporting a full squadron of submarines, so we had a full-up medical staff, about fifteen corpsmen, two dive corpsmen, a half-dozen pharmacist-specialist corpsmen, two full physicians (one a Lt. Commander, one a Lt or Lt(jg)), a dentist (typically a Lt), and half a dozen Dental Techs or so. Now, mind you, as a tender, we were the local clinic for our boats, but we were backed up by a full-scale regional Naval Hopsital. This is similar for the surface fleet, one tender is fairly similar to any other. Aircraft carriers will have larger medical departments, as they have much larger crews, and often serve as the principal medical resource for an entire battle group. A carrier’s medical dept might be commanded by a full Captain. Fleet Marine Force medical depts will be even larger, as each small unit has their own Independant Duty Corpsman, as well as the ships medical dept, which is prepared to recieve & treat significant battlefield casualties.

Hospital ships are only used in support of land-combat operations, and then only when anticipating massive casualties, and when the need is anticipated well in advance, as the hospital ships spend most of their time in stand-down mode.

That help any?
:wink:

Well, I don’t work on a cruiser, but I do work on a destroyer, which is the next smaller class, so here goes:

  1. There are no marines onboard cruisers or destroyers. All security, boarding operations, etc. is handled by the ship’s crew.

  2. There are no marine officers on board, but we do have a Anti-Terrorism Force Protection officer, who is a LTJG, or 0-2 if you’re trying to figure out the Marine equivalent. He is in charge of handling most of the security force training. He’s also in charge of the VBSS (Visit, Board, Search, and Seizure team.)

  3. My ship’s medical staff consists of 1 first class petty officer corpsmen, an hospitalman, and a hospitalman apprentice (E-6, E-3, and E-2, respectively.) For purposes of recordkeepinh the first class is billeted as the ship’s medical officer, but if someone required an actual doctor while we were at sea we would send them either to shore or an aircraft carrier via helicopter.

  4. Tico’s do not have doctors, again, only corpsmen. What Shunt said sounds about right.

Good luck with your story. Send me a copy and I’ll be happy to point out any innaccuracies

<b>Tranquilis</b>, that helps a lot, thanks.

I appreciate the information from everyone who responded. This seems like it will help.
After posting, I took a look at hospital ships and realized that with only two of them in the entire USN, they would probably only be used in situations such as you described.

Though, I will ask, when Marines were used for security, what was the ratio of marines to naval personnal, or how many marines on a crusier size ship?

Well, it isn’t anywhere near finish yet, but when it is, I’ll send a copy your way.

I had hoped to use marines for part of it, which was one of the reasons I asked, but now I’m not sure.

Low ratio, perhaps no more than ten or so, as Marines are essentially useless out to sea, and nobody wants a lot of waste bodies drinking the water, eating the food, hogging racks, taking up space, and clogging up the showers. Except on a 'gator, in which case, you’ve got literally hundreds of Marines hanging about. Marines, of course, are the only reason for the existence of the 'gators.

On smaller vessels Marines double up as deck hands and are available for boarding parties, security or specials.

A frigate will have around 20 Marines, but in the British Navy this will only be on the lead ship in the flotilla.
In charge will be one Sergeant, two corporals and one Liutenant.

The helicopter will be an intimate part of their active operations.

Destroyers and Frigates seem to have very similar crew numbers, it’s just the primary role that is differant.

Getting up toward cruiser and really you are talking less of single vessel disposition, and much more of at least three vessels.

The escorts will probably not have Marines onboard, this is usually the role of the flag vessel.

Medical staff, on Destroyers and Frigates you are looking at one senior rating plus two, however stores, stewards, cooks, secretary grades will also be used as first aiders, trained to a greater or lesser extent.

Larger vessels, say 350 to 400 crew will have one Officer at least, maybe two, one or two senior rates and three junior rates.

These will not be at the level of surgeon though, to get that would need a carrier fleet.

Not on US surface vessels. Deckforce is highly skilled, and it’s unlikely they’d have any use for amatures like Marines except for maybe chipping paint or heaving lines. Out to sea, not much line-heaving going on.
shrug
Other services, other traditions.

First a note on terminology: A Corpsman in the United States Navy is a member of the Hospital Corps (the only Enlisted Corps in the Navy). To be a member of said Corps, one must hold a rate of Petty Officer Third Class (at the lowest) or Master Chief Petty Officer (at the highest). Those nonrated personnel aspiring to become Corpsmen, and thus are designated as Strikers for that Corps, are Hospitalman Recruit (E1), Hospitalman Apprentice (E2), and Hospitalman (E3). So, the comment above about “two E6 and a Corpsman” is stated incorrectly. The carrier was the ship with the most well-staffed medical department. Other ships in the Battle Group, along with the USNS vessels (which themselves had no medical staff at all), relied on regular visits from the carrier’s Medical Department and also transferred patients when necessary to the carrier.

Next, the United States Navy no longer has Marine Detachments to provide security for the ships. When there were such detachments embarked, the first carrier on which I served was graced with a MarDet of approximately 35 Marines. The Detachment’s Officer in Charge was a Captain. The Senior Enlisted member of the Detachment was a First Sergeant. Their Commanding Officer was somewhat higher up the chain of command and was not embarked aboard our vessel. The Marines most certainly not useless at sea. To say so is to belie ignorance of what they did and how well they did it. AFAIK, the rationale behind phasing out the MarDets was that the ship’s own Weapons Department and Master-at-Arms Force could also perform that function, as they were already assisting the MarDet with it anyway. The inevitable jokes aside, Sailors are members of the Armed Forces and receive military training, so it’s not a big stretch to have one group of Servicemembers do the job of another group of Servicemembers provided they have the proper training.

My first carrier’s Medical Department had a few medical doctors, a senior Corpsman, a few junior Corpsmen, a few Strikers, and patients. The Dental Department had three Dentists, three Petty Officers, and two Strikers. The Dental Department was in no way connected with the Medical Department.

casdave described, I think, what it’s like in the Royal Navy. The rate/rank & occupational structures are different in the Senior Service than they are in the US Navy.

A word of advice to the OP: If you’re looking for authenticity in your story, the US Armed Forces have been known to actively assist people in that. Finish your story and then send it to the Navy’s Public Affairs Office. If they do with novels what they do with screenplays, they’ll have it vetted (couldn’t resist that pun) and make recommendations for changes.

No answers, but if you need any information about Navy Seabees, let me know.

Perhaps “useless” was too strong a choice, but when I consider that everything the Marine Detatchment did is duplicated in the existing ships force, and those functions are very capably handled, and that the Marines lack any other unique purpose save for in the case of amphibious warfare… Well, I frankly see no point in having them present on most surface combatants. It seems the US Navy Department agrees.

Oh, BTW: Seabees rock. I served a couple years with a small Seebee detatchment, and they not only build like lunatics, but they’re very capable light infantry (with their own built-in combat engineers!).

Tranquilis: It’s not necessarily a case of the Navy agreeing with you on the necessity of the MarDets; rather, it’s more a case of division of labor.