A friend of mine recently visited and informed me of some interesting benefits of joining the Navy after I graduate from college. This friend is in the Merchant Marines and plans to join the Navy soon.
According to him, If I go into the Navy after college-pass all the tests, then I will be garaunteed at least a 36,000 dollar a year job. 75% retirement benefits after 25 years. While I serve in the Navy I would get a 1.5% house loan, a (around) 1500 dollar housing allotment, full medical and dental.
To me this sounds pretty good for right out of college. I like the idea of getting my retirement 25 years after starting work with 75% of my previous salary.
Does anyone out there in the void have any knowledge about the above claims? I would go to an enlistment officer but from what I hear they are full of shit.
You ARE aware that with all those juicy benefits, you’re also obligated, for a while at least, to go exactly where you’re told, and do exactly what you’re told, and sometimes get shot at?
I’m pretty sure the 75% retirement is bogus. After 20 years you’re eligible for retirement at 50% of base salary. I think after 30 years you can get 60%. Starting base salary for an O-1 (ensign) seems about right. Full medical and dental while active duty, however, the promise of both into retirement has been a serious problem in the last few years, just ask any veteran.
Fan site.
http://www.usanavy.com/
Official Navy FAQ.
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/.www/faq.html
Navy Jobs (link from FAQ, under “Enlisting in the Navy”)
36K a year to start? No. As an Officer, you will start out at about 24K and get to 36K in about 3 years. As Enlisted, it’ll take about 6 to 8. This assumes of course, no enlistment bonus.
30 years of service will get you to the max retirement of 75%. 25 years is about 60%. You get that percentage of the average of your pay over the last three years of service.
The VA loan is about right.
The Housing allowance CAN be that much, but it can also be as low as 400. It is based on what part of the country/world you are in. Stationed in San Diego, you’ll get a higher allowance than say, Pigsknuckle Mississippi. Also, if you are single, it is not an automatic thing. You can’t just choose to live off base and collect housing allowance. People don’t live in the barracks on base because they like it there, I can assure you.
Medical and Dental, this is true.
The service really isn’t a bad life, but you certainly are not gonna get rich doing it. And your friend is inflating the numbers and the benefits a bit. On one side of the coin, the pay looks very good. On the other side, your pay is your pay. Whether you are an 8 hour per day admin clerk, or you are spending 18 hours a day on a flight deck, your pay is the same. It’s what you make it:)
Military Pay Scale here.
The 75% Fleet Reserve Retainer Pay doesn’t kick in until you’ve done 30 years, not 25. Very few go for the full 30 years. In order to go a full 30, you will have to have reached a rank or rate high enough to be permitted to go the distance. It’s the old “up or out” thing. Last I checked, you can go for 20 if you reach E-5. Officer ranks are different, and I’m unsure about them, having been a blue-shirt in my Navy time. At the 20 year point, you’ll get roughly 40% of your base pay as Fleet Reserve Retainer Pay. The 60% number has been current for a decade or so. You’ll have to check, because the formula changes all the time, depending on buget projections and Congressional whim. Whatever the program is when you join, that’s the program you’ll be retiring under (unless Congress changes that, too).
Fleet Reserve Retainer Pay is not retirement. It’s a retainer that the government pays you for the right to recall you at times of National need. Like right now. It doesn’t become Retirement pay until, IIRC, age 64. Then you’re free and clear, but not until. I’ve seen Fleet Reserve personnel recalled to active duty for a number of things. They were recalled to help train young sailors on the big guns when the battleships were reactivated, they were recalled for Desert Shield / Desert Storm, and I once saw one recalled to face Courts Martial for actions he took while in uniform, that didn’t come to light until after he’d been on the beach for a couple of years.
As for the pay (I’m assuming that you wanna be an ossifer), depending on your specialty and education, you might come in as O-1, O-2, or in some limited circumstances, even higher. $36,000 is about right for an O-2 (Lieutenant, Junior Grade). The housing allowance, if you qualify, depends partially on your grade, and partially where you’re assigned. There’s Basic Allowance for Quarters, Variable Housing Allowance, and Rent Plus. Those last two are to compensate for higher than average costs in some areas. Likewise, there’s BAS, or Basic Allowance for Sustenance (enlisted personnel), or it’s officer equivalent, which is for food. All this adds up, but you need someone whos familiar with your specific situation, your goegraphic location, and the pay charts to nail-down a specific number. The number you gave sounds pretty close.
Other bennies:
In certain areas, like Nuc Power and medical fienld, Officer Candidates can get the Nav to pick up a little, some, or all of your college costs. If you’re close to graduation, the Nav might pay off you student loans for you. It sepends on what type of Officer the Nav needs at this point in time, and how scarce they are.
When you’re in uniform, the Nav will pick-up as much as 75% of accredited education that you take on your own time (and, yes, there is spare time, if not much). The Nav also sends civillian college instructors to sea on some ships.
The dental and medical for you are free. Completely. You walk in and say “fix me”, and they do. For your family, should you have one, it’s not unlike most corporate health plans, except with more paperwork.
As for Recruiters being “full of it”, that’s mostly bullsh!t. Actually, it’s the Applicant that’s usually Full Of It, asking for unrealistic things, and failing to listen to what the recruiter says. If a particular Recruiter lies to an applicant, that applicant will certainly tell his or her friends, and the Recruiter may as well leave town that day, as he’ll never get a another contract in that town again. Recruiter Irregularities are investigated all the time, by local command, National Command, the JAG, and by Congress. They’re almost never substantiated, but when they are, the Recruiter in question gets the book thrown at them. CRUITCOM can’t afford to have dishonset Recruiters, the Nav can’t afford that, nor can the Nation.
This:
Should have been this:
“The 60% number has not been current for a decade or so.”
Sorry about that.
Non-serviceman checking in here. I think it’s worth pointing out that even if you aren’t enchanted by the pay scale, you also have very little in the way of expenses. If you’re comfortable with life on the cheap, you can let the Navy feed you, clothe you, and house you for free. Not terribly luxurious, but you’ll save a lot of money.
I still remember my junior and senior years of high school. The Navy recruiters were practically begging me to join. I had mail from them every other week, they’d call my house, offered me full scholarships, the works. Those were the days. Strange how none of the other services paid me much attention.
Turbo Dog-24K? That sounds really low pay for someone coming out of college.
Tranquilis- Well I guess most recruiters aren’t bad, I baised what I said off of a Marine recruiter who talked to me when I was fresh out of highschool. He made big promises that weren’t true. I don’t recall most of what he said now, it’s been a few years, but I do remember him telling my brother who tried to join later that he had to enlist immediately, even though my brother had the flu. He was also told to mark C (I think, not sure) on the test answers because it would get him a passing score.
Also I was (just) told that I should go talk to an officer enlistment person.
BF- I may sound like a dumbass but I couldn’t really make much of the pay chart. What I got from it was the basic pay for an O1 (which I assume is the basic position for an entry level college grad) was 1997.70 for what I assume is a month’s pay. My computer screen isn’t really clear though. I also assume the basic housing allowance for an O1 with dependents (as I am going to get married) is 557.10
Did I get this correct?
Cap’n
It depends on what the other services priorities were, what your qualifications were, and whether or not the other services even knew about you. Each service tends to guard their contact files pretty jealously.
Meatros
There are some jerks out there that give the rest of us a bad name, but usually it’s not the recruiter, its the applicant. While the lying Recruiter is not entirely UL, it’s not even close to being what the wags take as an article of faith.
And, yes, you read the chart correctly, so assuming you went in a complete butter-bar (Ensign, O-1), with a dependants, your basic package would be a little less than US$31,000 per year, depending on location and any specialty pay.
After two years, you’d be recieving ~$31,600, and after 3 years (assuming you’d not made O-2 yet), you’d be getting ~36,800. If you made O-2 at the three year point, your basic pay and allowances would jump to ~$43,700.
This is a gross oversimplification, and I’m not a DK (Disbursing Clerk), so use this as only a rough guesstimate.
I remember getting the Lie Letter every year which gave a civilian equivalent of what my pay was, it always inflated things to an unreasonable level. I think they figured we’d be paying med expenses out of pocket or something. Maybe it was a retention aid, right up until they started RIF’ing folks left and right.
Yeah, Meatros, what Tranquilis said is a pretty good outline. If I may, I’ll outline a little of what you could expect. Say you want to be a sub driver. After scoring very high in whatever entrance exams they have, you get guaranteed sub school. After attending OCS, where you’ll learn how to act like an officer, you go to either sub school first or nuclear power school, depending on availability, etc. After about a year and a half to two years (you’ve graduated from both), you’re now ready to go to your first real command.
Some things to remember. (Some people view them as cons, others as pros)
[ul]
What you see in the pay charts is what you get. No overtime, no Christmas bonus. Some of the billets can receive bonuses for staying in, in which most of the sub nuc (pronounced as nuke) officers qualify for.
Any concept of 9 to 5 is completely out the window. While in school, besides attending class from 7:30 to 4:30 and then mandatory study hall from 6:00 to 9:00, you may then have to assume a duty section watch that evening, or over the weekend. You’re not going to be standing a watch (since you’re an orificer) but you will get some of the sh*t duty jobs (since after all, you and your classmates are junior, junior orificers).
You do not get time off if you’re sick. If you’re dying of pneumonia, you will show up for class, upon which the instructor can order you to sick call. Only when the doctor says you’re sick and recommends bed rest, will you be allowed to go to the pharmacy to fill a prescription. If she doesn’t recommend bed rest, back to class (or duty) you go.
During the course of a 20 year career, you can probably expect to relocate at least 6 times. If you were a Marine officer, you can expect to move about 10 times.
You can’t quit. Once you sign on the dotted line, halfway through nuc power school and you realize this isn’t your cup of tea, well, it will just about take an act of congress to get back to the civilian world.
[/ul]
A career in the military is definitely not for just anyone, but can be a very rewarding experience, and technically, what other job could you “retire” from in your early 40’s?
Doesn’t flight deck crew get some kind of hazard pay bonus?
Yeah, that piece of trash was always a good joke, especially amongst us Nucs. I was getting them even during the force reductions. I had too many critical NECs (Naval Enlisted Classifications: Job specialties) for any of the RIFs to get me. Hell, the last three, I was specifically excluded. That is to say, one catagory of my rate was specifically exempted, and I was the only guy in the Nav to meet that criteria.
For those the are wondering what the hell we’re talking about, the Nav used to send a letter out to each sailor, usually on the anniversery of their enlistment, extolling the virtues of Navy Pay, and comparing your job and pay to “equivalent” civilian pay. The Nav always put the best possible spin on their side of the comaparison, choosing worst-case civilian scenaria. For Nucs, especially, it was extremely simple to de-bunk, as Nucs make a recreation and hobby out of resumes and job searches.
And yes, some kinds of duty draw extra pay. Flight Deck Pay, Sub Pay, Sea Pay, and so on. These only apply while you’re doing the job described, unless it’s a retention or incentive pay.
I know plenty of former officers who retire from the Navy at around 20 years on ~50% (or more) pension, who then go out and get civilian jobs.
So they’re making their civilian salary on top of their Navy pension. Not a bad deal. Also, senior officers (>20 yrs service) are in high demand at big corporations and in teaching.
If you go into civilian government service, it’s even better, because your gov’t pay scale is bumped up by your years of military service.
Of course, all of this assumes you stay in for 20+ years.
One must also accept that you will be called upon to sacrifice for your country. Convenience, pay, creature comforts etc. In extreme circumstances, perhaps even your life.
**One final piece of advice: This is not a decision to make based solely on getting a good (or better) deal after college. You will be in the military. Your primary mission will be to project US power overseas, including the delivery of bombs, bullets, missiles, etc. This is serious business. Don’t make the decision lightly and don’t let anyone pressure or influence you. **
Good luck,
-shouldbeworking
USNA '86
ShouldBeWorking’s bold bit there at the end is right on the money. This is a big decision. Not like going out to a public company and signing up for “At Will” employment that you can walk away from if you change your mind.
Another thing to consider is your temperament, and whether it would be a good fit for military life.
My ex-husband was an officer in the Navy. I realized, with some of what he put up with, that I’d never make it had I been the soldier. I have little tolerance for certain things, don’t like to not have freedom, and certainly don’t like to be ordered around much. I’m also not keen on the amount of paperwork. So I decided straight away that I’d never make it in the military.
You may want to consider whether you’d like your life to be much at the discretion of someone other than yourself. For those who don’t mind, the military is a great way to make an honorable living. I celebrate the fact that there are those who choose to do it.
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It’s not a pension until you reach age 64. Until that time, it’s Retainer Pay, meaning that cashing your check each month gives the service the right to call you back if they need you.
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It’s not 50% at 20. The formula was (at last check):
{[(Months Served / 12) x 2.5% of base pay]- 1% x [(360 - Months Served) / 12]} = Fleet Reserve Retainer Pay
This puts FRRP at 40% for 20 years, 57.5% at 25 years, and 75% at 30 years.
- You don’t have to stay for 20 for your skills and training to be valuable. My first manager in the Consulting field was a medically discharged Marine Captain (O-3), a former pilot who was hired purely for his leadership skills.
Everyone is pretty much on target here.
I would say that the Navy can be a very rewarding career. There are lots of challenges and a lot of responsibility. At 25 years of age (2 years out of college), I was in charge of a 10 to 12-man watch section running a nuclear power plant [as a qualified submarine Engineering Officer of the Watch (EOOW)][sup]1[/sup]. Shortly thereafter, as OOD (Officer of the Deck), I was in charge of all underway operations occuring on the boat. Nothing happened on the ship without me ordering it. (Now, before you get too impressed, realize that in a real emergency or battle situation, I would get lots of senior officer company in a hurry, but I am confident that my watchstanders and I could handle anything thrown at us.)
I’ll add to BF’s comments about sub officers:
There are no entrance exams for nuc officers. You just need to successfully screen through a one-on-one interview with a 4-star admiral (the head of Naval Reactors). You don’t see the admiral until you pass oral technical interviews. (OK, these are somewhat like exams.) Talk to a recruiter and ask about the nuc officer program upfront, if you are interested in this. They’ll tell you what you need to do to enter this pipeline.
Also, all sub nuc officers go through Nuclear Power School first, then prototype, then Sub School. No point in sending you to Sub School until you pass nuc school. (For officers, the nuc training attrition rate is 10-20%.)
Nuc officers do indeed rack up a lot of bonuses. However, even surface ship officers get sea pay. Also, the Navy has been throwing bonuses at everyone to encourage retention. I’m a lieutenant (O-3), and make about $60K annually, with no bonuses. Add $10K to this figure for sub and sea pay. Finally, add nuclear incentive pay, which is $12K per year.
Actually, if your grades are good, they don’t bother you much at all. However, while classes at nuc school run from 7:30 to 2:30 (followed by an hour and a half of study hall), you work 12-hour shifts at the Nuclear Power Training Unit (prototype). At least 4 hours of this is dedicated study. At sea, welcome to the world of 100-hour work weeks! You will be working virtually every waking moment. When first qualifying, it’s very similar to the life of a medical intern–you soon feel like a walking zombie.
If you’re at sea, this is right on the money. Unless you are projectile vomiting blood, you stand your watch. Maybe even then–bring a garbage bag with you. On shore, even in the schools, you can miss class if you’re sick. (However, you would get so far behind–even after one day–that you wouldn’t want to miss class needlessly.) And it’s true, there’s no such thing as calling in sick–you go to sick call.
Sort of. If you wash out of a training pipeline, they will switch you to another (such as subs to surface ships). Should you wash out of a second pipeline, you’ll probably find yourself a civilian again. If you wash out at sea, or be physically disqualified, you may find yourself pushing paper somewhere for the rest of your commitment.
This is the plain, unvarnished truth. Lots of responsibility, good pay, but lots and lots of work. Seeing the world is pretty neat too.
[sup]1[/sup]Alright, no cracks from the peanut gallery about do-nothing O-gangers!
The home loan benefit through the VA does not entitle you to a low interest loan. The benefit is that VA will guarantee your loan to your lender, enabling you to buy a house with a much lower downpayment than you would otherwise have to pay (and with no PMI).
I believe in most cases for reasonably sized loans, you can actually buy a house with no money down. This is a big deal, as saving for a standard 20% downpayment on a $150,000 can take a very long time. Especially on military pay.
More info on a VA loan here:
http://www.homeloans.va.gov/faqpreln.htm
I got out of the Navy a year ago after 9 years in as a helo pilot. I don’t regret it for a second, but it isn’t for everyone. Particularly given recent events, I’d echo others’ comments about thinking about what this means - you’re not only offering to put yourself in harm’s way, you’re also offering to pull a trigger and kill a bunch of people whenever your government tells you it’s justified. (I’m not talking about blatantly illegal and unlawful orders here – killing other people is a heavy burden, no matter how justified it may be.)