NBA Trade Deadline thread: Knicks get Carmelo, Nets get Deron Williams

The Game Room
#1

The Carmelo Anthony sweepstakes and its interminable list of “Melo” puns is finally over. It was an interesting situation that dragged out way too long, and in the end the Knicks improved but gave up a lot. The new team is going to play no defense at all, but fans are excited and the Nuggets appeared to do well for themselves in the trade. If the Knicks are actually able to turn around and acquire a center, it may work out better. I am sure the Garden will be rocking tonight.

The trade may have loosened a backlog of deals around the league. a In a trade that was totally unexpected, the Jazz traded Deron Williams to the Nets for Derrick Favors and Devin Williams (two pieces of their proposesed Carmelo package) and two draft picks. The Nets may not be able to sign Williams to a contract extension immediately, but it looks like a hell of a deal for them. Are the Jazz rebuilding for the first time in forever? Jerry Sloan just quit as coach, supposedly because he couldn’t get along with Williams, but then the team traded Williams anyway. What they have now isn’t terrible, but it seems like a longer-term trade. In any case it’s a stunner. People expected Wiliams to leave Utah eventually, but not this soon. It looks like the Nets made a great deal and the Jazz saved themselves a lot of drama.

I’m sure some other trades are forthcoming. The Blazers may trade some pieces, and the top teams are going to be looking for finishing pieces. The Lakers and Celtic may want to add players, but it’s doubtful either of them can trade much. Miami may have to pick up someone who has been bought out after the deadline.

#2

Wow… Williams is a complete stunner and a total coup for the Nets. They miss out on Carmelo, so they go and get someone better. I love it.

#3

And for less than they were going to give up for Carmelo. I think their final offer for him was Favors, Harris, and four first round picks, and that deal was predicated on Anthony’s $65 million contract extension. Williams is under contract for at least another season. I’m sure they think they can keep him for longer, but it won’t cost as much.

By the way, the Nets got Brandan Wright and Dan Dagzuric from Golden State in a separate trade for Troy Murphy.

Other fairly big names who might get traded include Marcus Camby, Antawn Jamison, and maybe Andre Miller (the Nets were said to be interested in Miller). The Bulls are said to be looking for shooting guard help.

#4

Andre Miller was rumored to be dealt to the Nets for Devin Harris, but with the Deron Williams deal going through, it’s looking like the Blazers will once again be on the outside looking in. For a team that stockpiled assets and tradeable pieces for multiple seasons, they’ve done a shitload of nothing in the last few years. It’s pretty frustrating, especially for someone (myself) who started following the team, literally, because they were the most active front office in the league at the time.

There aren’t any other rumors I’ve heard involving teams that haven’t already made moves, so it’s looking like Cho and the Blazers strike out once again.

I tend to think Denver got the better end of the Melo deal, actually. They got a lot of young, talented pieces back that could make for a really fine supporting cast around the right superstar in the future. Or maybe not, but considering they were absolutely forced to trade Carmelo and everyone in the league knew it, they sure got a lot more back than I think anyone thought. They had no leverage and came out, at worst, even in the deal.

Deron Williams was a steal too. He’ll make one or two literally brain dead decisions per game, but more than makes up for it. If the Nets can extend him, they have a solid centerpiece for their move to Brooklyn.

#5

Actually they had considerable leverage. With the CBA issues, Carmelo had to sign the extension, he could have been out tens of millions of dollars if the new agreement holds down future salaries. Given that, you have to think of the trade as if Carmelo was signed.

The Knicks traded 3 decent young starters and a 1st rounder for 1 superstar and 1 older veteran. That’s not terrible, especially if the Knicks are good in 2014, the pick is relatively low value.

#6

This might be a big if. There are already rumors that Williams was taken completely by surprise by this trade and isn’t happy with it.

http://www.onlinebasketballbetting.net/report-deron-williams-unhappy-with-trade-to-new-jersey/

#7

I really wish I knew what the hell happened in Utah. If Williams indeed forced Sloan out why would the Jazz have then shipped Deron out? They basically lost their coach and their best player when they should have been able to hang onto one of them. Does this mean that Sloan was looking to get out or that the team was tired of him apart from anything Williams felt? Now that Williams is gone is there a chance Sloan will be back? Did the Jazz have some buyers remorse and feel like they backed the wrong horse? Would they have made this Williams trade to the Nets regardless of the Sloan blow up a couple weeks ago?

I have so many questions.

On paper this looks like a great move for both teams. Assuming the Nets extend Williams, and with the CBA expiring they probably should do it soon, and the Jazz had no chance of signing him themselves that is. The Jazz get a young rookie in Favors who may or may not become great and get Devin Harris who can fill the void left by Deron. They also land a couple 1st rounders with some protection on one of them, considering the Nets and Warriors current record that could end up being a hell of a pair of picks.

The Nets get a super star and have a premiere player for their new arena in Brooklyn and will have the flexibility to buy another big name in the offseason.
Of course the Bulls traded the lackluster James Johnson for the Heat’s 1st rounder via Toronto which in and of itself is smell but could be the piece needed for them to add the much needed SG alongside Rose. Ideally they’d get a SG who can slide over to the PG spot when Rose is on the bench and add some scoring and act as a spark plug. Ideally I want Afflalo from Denver but the buzz is about OJ Mayo in Memphis. Mayo probably has more upside and comes cheaper but there are concerns about his personality screwing up the excellent chemistry on this classy Bulls roster.

#8

It seems like the Jazz decided there was no way they were going to convince Williams to stay, so they moved him sooner rather than later and didn’t have to sit through too much LeBron-style yoyoing or Carmelo-esque trade demands. I wish I could find a link to the ESPN writer who said ‘once Carmelo is traded, the next Decision comes from Deron Williams,’ but that at least came true. The Nets obviously think they can keep the guy, but it remains to be seen if they are kidding themselves. They can’t sign him to an extension until July, which is after the current collective bargaining agreement expires. That means his next deal will be subject to whatever future rules the league and players agree to (i.e. shorter contracts and less money).

Nobody ever said the organization chose Williams over Sloan. Apparently Sloan and Williams couldn’t get along, and Sloan quit.

I doubt it. He was near the end of his career anyway and they may as well turn over a new leaf if they’re not going to win now.

Devin Harris isn’t any kind of replacement for Deron Williams. Utah does have some good players left in Millsap, Jefferson, and Favors, so it’s not like they strip mined the whole roster, but if the team they had was barely in the playoffs…

Utah is getting the Nets’ first round pick this year. The Golden State pick is protected. The short version is that the Jazz won’t get that pick unless it’s #7 or lower this year or next year, or #6 or lower in 2014. If the protection kicks in all three years, they get two second round picks. So they may get another lottery pick out of it, but they’re not going to stumble into the number one pick or anything.

Ugh. Well, he can score (some drugs) but I’d prefer Afflalo or a lot of other guys.

#9

Soooooo…when is the NBA going to announce that they’ve contracted to 12 teams?

#10

Didn’t LeBron ‘suggest’ contracting New Jersey this summer? Not that they’re about to challenge the Heat, but… oops. By the way, Williams is under contract next year and has a player option for 2012-13. So that’ll be one way to find out how he feels about the Nets at that point.

#11

I know it’s been reported that Sloan up and quit but I don’t think the explanation is that simple. Supposedly Williams and Sloan had a shouting match that was the last straw and Sloan just said fuck it. But, as far as I have heard Sloan never hinted at retiring or quitting prior to this. When the owner died, who Sloan presumably had a strong relationship with, you have to wonder if Sloan’s days were numbers. I wonder if there’s been a steady decay in the relationship, largely because of player strife, and if Sloan would have stuck around had the team explained to him that Williams would be on his way out. It’s not like his contract situation and unwillingness to extend was unknown before Sloan left.

All in all, there’s a important part of the story that’s being left out. Either the new Jazz management didn’t do anything to soothe Sloan or to put Williams into line. Neither the player or the coach apparently had any clue that a trade was a possibility even if it does make logical sense. I find it hard to believe that the Jazz would let Sloan up and quit if they knew Williams was on the way out too unless they’d been pressuring Sloan to leave all along. Did the Sloan/Williams play into the need to trade him? Did the ownership decide that he’s a malcontent that wasn’t worth keeping around for another year and at least trying to resign? Did Williams basically tell them no way in hell after the Sloan fight? Something else happened here.

Let’s face it, the Jazz would have been better off keeping Williams this year and trading him before next year’s deadline in a sign and trade unless they thought Williams would somehow sabotage that. That they made the move a year early in a deal that doesn’t save them any money really is curious. We’re missing some info.

Sloan was interviewed briefly after the trade was announced by phone in Chicago and still sounded pretty bitter about the whole situation.

The Nets currently have the 6th worst record and may not improve over that by much. That could very possibly become a #1 overall and is very likely a top 6 pick. The Warriors are going to end up losing either Monta Ellis or Steph Curry next year and would probably get worse, not better. That they’d end up having the 8th or 9th pick is pretty damn likely, more likely than they are to end up being worse than the Raptors, Cavs, Kings and T-Wolves next year. It’s likely that those first 3 lottery balls will be really important for those two teams. I think the Jazz very possibly will have one top 5 pick and one top 10 pick coming to them in this deal.

#12

Everybody knew the Nets were looking to trade Harris. According to the Nets, the discussions with Utah just started yesterday. It’s possible they hadn’t planned to trade Williams this soon. Maybe they could have gotten more for Williams, but I can believe that they didn’t want this situation to drag out. You’re right they didn’t act on either Williams or Sloan’s behalf. Maybe they realized that Williams was going to check out no matter who was coaching and that Sloan wasn’t going to be around that much longer regardless.

#13

All logical points, except that the reason a deal didn’t happen with New Jersey (it had been agreed to by both teams) was because Carmelo specifically would not guarantee an extension. He would guarantee that with exactly one team, the Knicks. When you have to trade someone or they walk, and they can only be traded to one team (because he won’t sign an extension anywhere else and no one will give up the farm for half a season of a guy like Carmelo), you have no leverage.

That New Jersey somehow spooked the Knicks into upping their offer is just a sign that the Knicks weren’t ready to go all in on their advantage, in my opinion.

This reminds me of the Heat in this past offseason where they had just finished gathering LeBron, Wade, and Bosh together and had nothing else on the roster. Because it was the offseason, they had time to pick up some cheap free agents and aging guys looking to get their ring… but New York doesn’t have that time this season. And I’m extremely unimpressed by their starting five, even with Anthony and Amare. I wouldn’t call myself a hardcore NBA fan, but I’m pretty in touch and I had no idea who their 4th and 5th starters would be. Interesting to see what they can do to fill that roster out and make it work for 2012 and beyond.

I’m just really surprised Denver got as much back as they did. I may be mistaken, but I don’t recall a deadline deal for a superstar to be so balanced between both teams. I mean, is anyone saying Utah got the better end of the DWill deal?

Edit: Okay, I’m not extremely unimpressed. You could do a whole lot worse than Melo and Amare and Billups as your third best guy. I just meant to say that their other two starters are going to be serious holes and that I don’t know if you can win a championship with holes playing significant minutes for you like that. Maybe their remaining guys aren’t that bad though.

#14

You’re sorta leaving out a factor. It’s not just that Melo might not have signed an extension, it’s that Melo would have had to take a huge pay cut if he let his contract expire and signed with the Knicks in the offseason. So, while the Knicks might have been willing to stand firm on their offer and let the Nuggets keep him or ship him elsewhere for a 1/2 year rental with a option to buy, they couldn’t trust that Melo wouldn’t renege and sign with one of those other teams for an extra $20M or so.

#15

This is what made the whole thing interesting. :wink: The Nuggets wanted to get as much as they could for him but had to move him by the deadline or they’d get nothing, Anthony wanted to choose his destination but didn’t want to lose the contract extension, the Knicks and Nets wanted to get him without giving up too much.

#16

This doesn’t quite compare to the Williams and Anthony trades, but Atlanta is sending Mike Bibby to Washington as part of a five-player deal that brings Kirk Hinrich to the Hawks, and the Kings traded Carl Landry to the Hornets for Marcus Thornton and some cash.

#17

The most fucked up thing is that Melo, if he really wanted to win, would have been wisest to just sit tight and let the Nuggets ship him wherever they wanted. Then he could have gone to the Knicks and signed a max deal and actually had a strong team around him. It’d have cost him a year and a few million bucks on the front end which he could have made up in endorsements but he’d have had Felton, Gallinari, Chandler and Mozgov to help him take on the big boys in the East. As it stands I think the Knicks will end up taking an initial step back.

#18

Could he have?

Not only would the Knicks not have max contract space available if this current cap was carried forward to next year, the CBA will likely bring down the cap and/or restrict player movement in some way.

He would have been looking at tens of millions left on the table if he actually became a free agent.

#19

They’d have made the space. They would have still sent Curry’s expiring deal somewhere and shed enough money to make it happen, just like every team did this past offseason. Maybe Felton or Chandler would have had to be moved over the summer, but they’d have gotten value for them.

The new CBA is gonna be weird but it’s unlikely that it will be a hard cap and contracts might end up being non-guaranteed but I’m pretty confident that super stars will still be paid that way.

#20

I heard that he told the Knicks that he was determined to sign the extension, with someone else if not with the Knicks. Frankly, if he would have been OK to not sign the extension, it would have been a no brainer to just tell the Knicks that, and sign with them after the season. As much as this deal was “not bad” it would have been a stellar pickup in the off season, you keep all the young guys and draft picks and get a top player to boot. Since the Knicks gave up a lot, I think it’s likely* that Carmelo felt it was in his best interest overall to get the extension vs. sign onto a better team in the offseason.
Clearly, this team is not ready to compete on the big stage, but this is step 3 in putting together a top flight team. Step 1 being clearing out the crap, step 2 being Amare. They’re looking for a 3rd “big” free agent in an upcoming offseason, but can likely be a solid playoff team with just these three and decent bits and pieces around them.

Considering where they started from pre-Walsh, I’m amazed.
*This assumes that Dolan isn’t the worlds biggest idiot, giving up all those players and picks to get Carmelo for an extra half a season. This assumption could be wrong.